{"id":2304,"date":"2014-01-21T12:31:58","date_gmt":"2014-01-21T17:31:58","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/?p=2304"},"modified":"2019-10-30T17:02:55","modified_gmt":"2019-10-30T21:02:55","slug":"why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-3-calvinism-dislocates-god-from-our-experience-of-him","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/2014\/01\/21\/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-3-calvinism-dislocates-god-from-our-experience-of-him\/","title":{"rendered":"Why I Stopped Being a Calvinist (Part 3): Calvinism Dislocates God From our Experience of Him"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/9\/2014\/01\/john_calvin_titian.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"289\" height=\"400\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-2426\" srcset=\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/9\/2014\/01\/john_calvin_titian.jpg 289w, https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/9\/2014\/01\/john_calvin_titian-216x300.jpg 216w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 289px) 100vw, 289px\" \/><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size:medium\"><b>Calvinism Dislocates God From our Experience of Him<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n<p>By <a href=\"https:\/\/plus.google.com\/103911280480982124182?rel=author\">Robin Phillips<\/a><\/p>\n<p>We have seen in <a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/2014\/01\/10\/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-2-calvinism-destroys-gods-justice\/\"><strong>Part 2<\/strong><\/a> of this series that Calvinism essentially asserts that God has two sides of His character, a side that delights to show mercy and a side that delights to punish sin. Both these sides must be expressed. By redeeming the elect, God\u2019s love and mercy are demonstrated. But lest the Father\u2019s wrath be completely pacified and we forget how much He hates sin, He needs to have another group on which His hatred of sin can be expressed.<\/p>\n<p>Our previous post looked at the theological problems of this idea. In this post I would like to look at the existential problems that emerge from these ideas which I myself experienced as a Calvinist.<\/p>\n<p>I found increasingly that it was impossible to have a relationship with the God of Calvinism, or at least to have a positive relationship with such a God. I often felt like the Greek writer Xenophon who recorded that he had been assisted by Zeus in his capacity as the god of safety and god of kings but had then fallen foul of Zeus in his capacity as god of propitiation. Similarly, Calvinism teaches that God has two sets of self-contained attributes that must both be expressed in order for God to be completely Himself \u2013 attributes which are antithetical to each other. Our task is presumably to get on the side of God that needs to express love and then be thankful that we are not a target of the side of God that needs to express His hatred of sin, just as Xenophon had to get on Zeus\u2019s side as god of safety and not god of propitiation.<\/p>\n<p>Now here\u2019s the existential problems that confronted me: I can go through the motions of worshiping such a God and I can try to be on His good side and I can recognize that however things appear He must be good since words like <i>goodness<\/i>, <i>justice<\/i> and <i>love<\/i> have no meaning apart from God as the ultimate standard; yet on an experiential level I don\u2019t know how to love such a God or to feel anything other than horror when contemplating Him. That doesn\u2019t make such an idea false (i.e., that might be who God really is), but it did render it existentially problematic for me.<br \/>\n.<br \/>\nThe distinction between God\u2019s prescriptive will and His decreed will (which Calvin inherited from late medieval Catholic theologians) is central to any discussion of such matters. God\u2019s prescriptive will is what God commands to be the case, while God\u2019s decreed will is what He makes to be the case. So with respect to God\u2019s prescriptive will, He wills that no one commits adultery, but with regard to His decreed will, every day He wills that thousands of people will be unfaithful to their spouses.<\/p>\n<p>Some Calvinists go further to assert that God\u2019s prescriptive will includes those things which God <em>wants<\/em> to happen while His decreed will includes many things that God doesn\u2019t want to happen, even though He still wills them. Other Calvinists will say that God doesn\u2019t even want His prescriptive will to happen even though He uses language in scripture which suggests otherwise<\/p>\n<p>God\u2019s decreed will is sometimes referred to as God\u2019s \u2018hidden will.\u2019 But it is misleading to call God\u2019s decreed will \u2018hidden\u2019 since Calvinists claim to know a lot about it. For example, they claim to know that everything that has ever happened in human history has happened because of God\u2019s decreed will.<\/p>\n<p>Out of these dual modes of willing emerge numerous other juxtapositions, which Hans Boersma <a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblicalstudies.org.uk\/pdf\/eq\/1992-4_333.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">has helpfully articulated<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Whereas God\u2019s revealed will is communal (with God wanting everyone to follow his law), his hidden will concerns the outcomes of the lives of specific individuals. Whereas the external preaching of the Word extends to many (though not all), the inward working of the Spirit is limited to those who have been chosen from eternity. Whereas the outward call merely leads to a general adoption and thus remains impersonal, adopting through the gift of faith means an intimate and mystical union with Christ. Finally, whereas the preaching of God\u2019s revealed will is always accompanied by the demand of faith, God\u2019s electing will is unconditional and absolutely certain, so that all who have been granted the special grace of God\u2019s Spirit will persevere till the end.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>This fundamental dichotomy between God\u2019s two modes of willing forced Calvin to set in opposition the teleology that is normative for an object with the teleology which God ultimately wills for it. But I\u2019m getting ahead of myself and must define my terms. A thing\u2019s <em>telos <\/em>is the goal or final end for which it exists. So the <em>telos<\/em> of a hammer is to bang things into the wall while the\u00a0<em>telos<\/em> of a seed is to be an adult plant. Now Calvinism affirms that with respect to God\u2019s revealed will, the <em>telos<\/em> or goal of each and every individual includes eternal union with Him, but with respect to His hidden will, the <em>telos<\/em> of certain individuals includes eternal disunion with Him. This means that for everyone that isn\u2019t saved, there is a dual <em>telos<\/em> (in what sense, God\u2019s desired end for such people is salvation, but in another sense it is damnation).<\/p>\n<p>Again, the problem we had with this model was more existential than theological, although one can make good theological arguments against it. The existential problem is that since God reveals Himself to mankind in terms of the first mode (His revealed will) while He relates to mankind in terms of the second mode (His hidden will), <em>a radical discontinuity is set up between God as He is and God as we experience Him.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>This discontinuity creates a host of practical difficulties when it comes to trying to have a relationship with the Calvinist God, since it means that our experience of God is fundamentally disconsonant from who He really is.<\/p>\n<p>This discontinuity is different to simply saying (as the tradition of Eastern Christianity does) that there is an aspect of God that will forever be unknowable to us (i.e., God\u2019s essence, which is unknowable, and His energies, which are knowable, to simplify to an extreme). Rather, Calvinism says that we can and do know some things about how God is in Himself, and that this is opposite to how He reveals Himself to be.<\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s a case in point: all Calvinists will affirm that during the time of Jeremiah when the people were sacrificing their children to the fires of Molech, this only occurred because it was part of God\u2019s eternal decrees. Yet the Calvinist is also compelled to say that God reveals Himself as being so horrified by the act that, anthropomorphically speaking, He could declare that such a thing had never even entered His mind (Jer. 19:5; 32:35; 7:31). Where does this leave us? It leaves us with a constant discontinuity between God as He is in Himself (i.e., continually decreeing evil) vs. the mode by which God accommodates Himself to us (i.e., continually willing non-evil).<\/p>\n<p>If we dwell on this, it leads to existential problems that can drive a person mad. Calvinists generally recognize this, which is why they continually urge us to bracket off our knowledge of how God <em>really<\/em> is from How God has <em>accommodated<\/em> Himself to us. In fact, Calvinists have frequently told me <em>not<\/em> to try to relate to God in terms of what we know to be true with respect to His eternal decrees. For example, even though we know that for everything that happens, nothing could ultimately have been otherwise, we must nevertheless act as if there is an element of real meaningful contingency. Again, we know that the <em>telos<\/em> of many people is eternal disunion with God, but we must act<em> as if<\/em> the <em>telos<\/em> of every person is eternal union with Him. Once again, we know that God does not actually love every person, but we must act as if the statement \u201cHe is a good God and loves mankind\u201d applies to everyone. And on and on.<\/p>\n<p>Calvinism thus requires us to constantly suspend belief in order to have a relationship with God. This is especially true when we approach verses like Ephesians 5:1 and Matthew 5:48 about being imitators of God.\u00a0 A Calvinist believes it would be disastrous to imitate God as He actually is, and urges us only to imitate Him as He accommodates Himself to us.<\/p>\n<p>Again this wouldn\u2019t be problematic if Calvinists were content to say that how God is in Himself is a mystery. The problem arises precisely because the Calvinist does claim to know about God\u2019s so-called \u2018hidden will\u2019, namely that it is sometimes opposite to the modes by which God accommodates Himself to us.<\/p>\n<p>What Calvinism teaches about God is thus radically disconsonant with our experience of Him, and a Calvinist can have a meaningful relationship with the Lord only by suspending belief.<\/p>\n<h3>Further Reading<\/h3>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/notes\/robin-phillips\/john-calvin-and-the-nominalist-tradition-a-response-to-kevin-johnson\/10151673080102402\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John Calvin and the Nominalist Tradition: A Response to Kevin Johnson<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/2014\/01\/09\/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-1-calvinism-presents-a-dehistoricized-bible\/\"><b>Why I Stopped Being a Calvinist (Part 1): Calvinism presents a dehistoricized Bible<\/b><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/2014\/01\/10\/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-2-calvinism-destroys-gods-justice\/\"><b>Why I Stopped Being a Calvinist (Part 2): Calvinism Destroys God\u2019s Justice<\/b><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/2014\/01\/22\/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-4-the-heresy-of-monergism\"><b>Why I Stopped Being a Calvinist (Part 4): The Heresy of Monergism<\/b><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/2014\/01\/23\/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-5-a-deformed-christology\"><b>Why I Stopped Being a Calvinist (Part 5): A Deformed Christology<\/b><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.robinmarkphillips.com\/?p=5643\">Links to all my Articles on John Calvin or Calvinism<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Calvinism Dislocates God From our Experience of Him By Robin Phillips We have seen in Part 2 of this series that Calvinism essentially asserts that God has two sides of His character, a side that delights to show mercy and a side that delights to punish sin. Both these sides must be expressed. By redeeming the elect, God\u2019s love and mercy are\u2026 <a class=\"moretag\" href=\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/2014\/01\/21\/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-3-calvinism-dislocates-god-from-our-experience-of-him\/\">  <i class=\"fa fa-arrow-circle-right\"><\/i> <\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":20,"featured_media":2427,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[43,23,25],"tags":[411,101,119,400],"class_list":["post-2304","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-calvinism","category-protestantism","category-reformed","tag-calvinism","tag-conversion","tag-doctrine","tag-reformation"],"yoast_head":"<title>Why I Stopped Being a Calvinist (Part 3): Calvinism Dislocates God From our Experience of Him &#8211; Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/2014\/01\/21\/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-3-calvinism-dislocates-god-from-our-experience-of-him\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Why I Stopped Being a Calvinist (Part 3): Calvinism Dislocates God From our Experience of Him &#8211; Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Calvinism Dislocates God From our Experience of Him By Robin Phillips We have seen in Part 2 of this series that Calvinism essentially asserts that God has two sides of His character, a side that delights to show mercy and a side that delights to punish sin. 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By redeeming the elect, God\u2019s love and mercy are\u2026\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/2014\/01\/21\/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-3-calvinism-dislocates-god-from-our-experience-of-him\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/OrthodoxyHeterodoxy\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2014-01-21T17:31:58+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2019-10-30T21:02:55+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/9\/2014\/01\/john_calvin_titian-crop.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"289\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"307\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Robin Phillips\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Robin Phillips\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"8 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/2014\/01\/21\/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-3-calvinism-dislocates-god-from-our-experience-of-him\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/2014\/01\/21\/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-3-calvinism-dislocates-god-from-our-experience-of-him\/\",\"name\":\"Why I Stopped Being a Calvinist (Part 3): Calvinism Dislocates God From our Experience of Him &#8211; 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He\u00a0has a Master's in history from King\u2019s College, London, and a Master\u2019s in Library Science from the University of Oklahoma. He is a contributor to Touchstone Magazine and Salvo Magazine, and operates a blog at www.robinmarkphillips.com.\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/author\/robinphillips\/\"}]}<\/script>","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Why I Stopped Being a Calvinist (Part 3): Calvinism Dislocates God From our Experience of Him &#8211; Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/blogs.ancientfaith.com\/orthodoxyandheterodoxy\/2014\/01\/21\/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-3-calvinism-dislocates-god-from-our-experience-of-him\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Why I Stopped Being a Calvinist (Part 3): Calvinism Dislocates God From our Experience of Him &#8211; Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy","og_description":"Calvinism Dislocates God From our Experience of Him By Robin Phillips We have seen in Part 2 of this series that Calvinism essentially asserts that God has two sides of His character, a side that delights to show mercy and a side that delights to punish sin. 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