The Meekness of God

“Brood of vipers!” with those words John the Baptist is often introduced in the movies and the minds of believers as a loud, nearly violent prophet of the desert. That Charlton Heston played him in one of those movies was almost type-casting, at least with regard to the popular imagination. And yet, St. John is an example of meekness.

When confronted by the religious leaders of Israel he has little to say for himself. He is far more clear about who and what he is not than about who and what he is. When he encounters Christ he declares himself unworthy to untie his sandals, much less Baptize the one whom he calls, “The Lamb of God.” When confronted by the growing success of Christ’s disciples (to the dismay of his own) he says, “He must increase and I must decrease.”

St. John’s role is to prepare and to point out. The attention of his life and ministry are not towards himself, but towards Christ.

We can see the same thing in the Mother of God. Her response to Gabriel’s word is simply, “Behold, the handmaid of the Lord. Be it unto me according to your word.” Even at the Wedding in Cana, where we imagine her to be importuning Christ, her only words to her Son are, “They have no wine.” The outcome of her simple observation is merely, “Do whatever he asks.”

This self-emptying deprecation is, oddly, the very character of God Himself, as revealed in the pages of the gospels:

  • “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. (Jn. 3:35)
  • Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.” (Jn. 5:19)
  • “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.” (Jn. 16:13)

This mutual self-emptying reveals God at His very depths. Christ reveals God most completely in His suffering, death and resurrection. This is not merely something that “happens” to Him. It is the fullness of the revelation of God. St. Paul highlights this when he speaks of Christ “emptying himself” (kenosis) on the Cross and becoming “obedient unto death.”

In these statements, we see that God’s mutual self-emptying is more than an occasional action: it is a way of being. And, it is the very manner of existence that St. Paul urges on us as well. When he describes Christ’s self-emptying on the Cross it is in order to say to us, “Have this mind within you…” (Phil. 2:5).

This “kenotic” mode of existence runs completely contrary to our most common patterns. Our modern life is thought to be a collection of autonomous wills, each vying with others to gain and hold a position of power. Our lives are emotional and psychological negotiations in which the presence of others serve as threats, signaling the possibility that we may need to accept less than what we want. This is a formula for anxiety and depression. We are anxious in that our power over others is limited and ineffective. It becomes depressing in that we are constantly frustrated and unable to have what we want.

It is ironic that we imagine the life of a god as a life of power in which every desire is fulfilled. It is, in fact, the life of a demon, though a demon’s torment lies in the fact that its desires remain unfulfilled. Lucifer’s desire to be “like God” made him into a near opposite.

American Christians have become increasingly politicized over the past few decades (both on the Left and the Right). They have fallen prey to the lure of a better world through the exercise of power. Regardless of who is “up” at any given election cycle, there are no winners and there can be no peace. For with every “victory,” the opposition remains. Continual warfare becomes a necessity. We are anxious, depressed and angry. The path of theosis has been traded for the life of demons.

Christ’s aphorism, “He who seeks to save his life will lose it, while he who loses his life will save it,” becomes quite clear in its meaning when all of this is considered. God Himself lives a life of self-emptying love. He “lost” creation in His love for it. He “lost” Himself in His love for creation that He might gain it again. We frequently want God to join us in our demonic path of anxiety and control. We see the things that trouble us and say, “Why doesn’t God do something?” We have Jesus but we want Zeus.

That the notion of mutual self-emptying is so difficult for us to fathom is difficult for us, in part, for the fact that we have been exalted to positions of relative power within the cultures of the world. Even the least voter can imagine themselves to be the shaper of history. Christians in the First World have become “managers.” The least among us often practice a form of self-emptying because they have no options. Aspects of the gospel are easier for them. Those who find themselves with power (or imagine that they do) discover that self-emptying is an “eye of the needle,” and that salvation is nearly impossible. That such statements seem odd is a testament to how deeply Christianity has been perverted in our time and become but one more position of power among the many.

John the Baptist ended his days in Herod’s prison, his head delivered to the tyrant on a platter, at the whim of a dancing girl. The Theotokos stood by the Cross in silence as a sword of sorrow pierced her soul. Their examples have been mirrored countless times through the centuries by God-loving martyrs and the yet more obscure men and women who have faithfully repeated, “He must increase and I must decrease; be it unto me according to His word.”

In the eyes of the foolish they seemed to have died, and their departure was thought to be an affliction, and their going from us to be their destruction; but they are at peace. For though in the sight of men they were punished, their hope is full of immortality. Having been disciplined a little, they will receive great good, because God tested them and found them worthy of himself; like gold in the furnace he tried them, and like a sacrificial burnt offering he accepted them. In the time of their visitation they will shine forth, and will run like sparks through the stubble. They will govern nations and rule over peoples, and the Lord will reign over them forever. Those who trust in him will understand truth, and the faithful will abide with him in love, because grace and mercy are upon his elect, and he watches over his holy ones. (Wis. 3:2-9)

 

About Fr. Stephen Freeman

Fr. Stephen is a priest of the Orthodox Church in America, Pastor Emeritus of St. Anne Orthodox Church in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. He is also author of Everywhere Present and the Glory to God podcast series.



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198 responses to “The Meekness of God”

  1. Theo Avatar
    Theo

    I was reading one of the psalms where David says I walk in innocence in my uprightness. It paints the picture of a holy person having been led to holiness innocently as a child. I think when we see all human activity whether bad or good as a product of innocence it helps us to navigate forgiveness much easier. A study in childhood development and the fragility of the human psyche and heart illustrate that in the final analysis all of us are ultimately innocent and we know not what we do.

  2. Stephen Griswold Avatar
    Stephen Griswold

    Amen Father. The Faith has been greatly warped in the modern Western World. I listened to a man this morning going on and on about how we had to vote and get the right people in office to have social justice and bring about the Kingdom. He simply could not accept that we cannot “correct” others without abusing them nor can we bring social justice into this world. Self emptying does not include fixing others.

  3. sw Avatar
    sw

    “We have Jesus but we want Zeus.” How very true. Elegantly put, too.

  4. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    My sister recently posted a protestant declaration (she is Episcopalian) on her social media page that included the phrase, “The church’s role is to change the world through the life and love of Jesus Christ.” While generic in statement, this jumped off the page at me. It is so easy to take vanilla statements of this sort and build a worldly empire. I know the Church is not about “changing the world” but rather changing our hearts and helping us into communion with God. There is nothing meek or humble about “changing the world”. May God grant mercy.

  5. John Chiladakis Avatar
    John Chiladakis

    Fr. Stephen thanks, your words brought me to tears…

  6. Melba Whitaker Avatar
    Melba Whitaker

    Recently I visited my son’s family and the nighttime ritual with me and his six year old son is to make the sign of the cross on each other’s forehead and say “God bless you” before we drift off to sleep. This time, he added his own words where his thinking seem to see the sign of the cross as a plus sign. After the sign of the cross, he then turned to me and made the “minus sign” on my forehead, saying “God minus you.” Then he make the equal sign, saying “God equal you.” Returning home, my prayer now continues, “God minus me, take away my demonic anxiety, my pride, my propensity to judge others and lead me on the path to righteousness.” I will never be equal, but maybe with God’s help and little Brian’s prayers, I will be more like God.

  7. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    ZING! TWANNGGGG! This is the sound of a razor sharp arrow hitting it’s target, just as you have done so again in this article, Father.

    The timing of this is all the more powerful to me in that in my community there is right now a situation requiring public effort (a business looking like a possible front for human trafficking having established itself in a new location right on my back doorstop here in one of those “Evangelical meccas” of N. America), requiring me to navigate that razor sharp edge of “in the world, but not of it” once again in a real, rubber-meets-the-road way. I’m so thankful it is not up to me to change the world, but only Christ. It is only mine to continue to struggle to empty myself in abandonment to Him and His ways. May He grant me grace to do so.

  8. Dee of St Hermans Avatar
    Dee of St Hermans

    I cried also when I read this. Thank you so much for this reflection Fr Stephen.

  9. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    But of course it is not just a modern delusion. It has been the temptation of the Church since Constantine made it the religion of the Empire. I wonder sometimes from whom “In this sign conquer” came?

    We see the temptation at work in the woefully misguided idea of “synergy” between the government and the Church which even at it’s best reduces the Church’s reality and binds her to this world in a manner never intended I think.
    We see it in the practice of buying the Patriarchal Throne of Constantinople under the Turkish Yoke and Sergianism in Soviet Russia. The corruption of good people trying to save the Church from her external enemies at the price of the souls of many I fear.
    We see it in the insane ethnocentric divisions here in the US and abroad. Our hierarchs bowing to those with money and power. Insane to the point that Orthodox Arabs, Greeks, Russians and Americans grapple in combat with each other because we are not the “right kind” of Orthodox.

    The Church as institution is at the lowest she has ever been in the West and for that I must be thankful for maybe it means we will be required to embrace the Cross if we want to live.

  10. Kathy Avatar
    Kathy

    “The path of theosis has been traded for the life of demons.” Please explain this further. Do you just mean modern man seeking a place of power instead of self-emptying

  11. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Kathy,
    Yes. The place of power and control rather than self-emptying. Now, many people may indeed have power given to them as part of their job. As such, they have a very difficult task. What they want to do is to use power justly. That requires a great deal of wisdom. “Fair to all concerned” is as close as I can get to the meaning of “justly.”

  12. Albert Avatar
    Albert

    I think for most of my friends and family, the issue is: “When I was hungry, you gave me food, when I was thirsty, . . ” along with the good Samaritan story. They see the institution of the church as being included in the word “you” and in the image of the Samaritan. They also believe that they should influence the government to become more like the “you” as well. It is very hard for me to discuss this with them because for them any other interpretation (e.g., “you” being just one person at a time, individuals trying respond to the literal meaning– to help whoever is near– as being truly Christian but also idealistic and somewhat irresponsible since they feel blessed with more resources than most, and through their resources they have a wider reach– thus greater opportunities to feed, etc.,, which bring greater responsibility.

    I have trouble arguing with that, and am not sure that arguing is the right word. I look for opportunities to add my view but my words seem to stir a surprising anger, so I support and encourage their efforts– even participate when I can–and at the same time pray that their version of “self emptying” is growing towards an understanding of the one you describe, God’s version– which is so hard for many of us to connect with the image that we are also taught to believe in: “God the father, the almighty, creator of heaven and earth . . .” (Not Zeus exactly, but one to be in awe of, revere, obey). I am tempted to revert to the “It’s complicated” position, but when I visit here, or participate in the Divine Liturgy, it seems very simple.

    But you know all this, Father Stephen, and most readers do too, I suppose I’m still sorting things out for myself, living day by day in what feels almost like two worlds. I mean two seemingly different understandings of Christianity. I trust they are compatible in the long view. But so far, silence and working together for good is what makes them so for me, us, my family and friends.

    My larger concern, however, is how a self-emptying understanding of God and our response to that can be shared, even promoted. Or is it the wrong kind of question, one that arises from the influence-improve-control model? You see, I am a bit puzzled that it took me almost a lifetime to realize how limited my view of Christianity was, when possibly someone could have opened my mind. Or perhaps it’s a matter of the heart and God’s timing.

  13. Jordan Avatar
    Jordan

    Recently, my pastor (Mennonite) wrote a blog post in which he referred to the President as being basically in a state of wish fulfillment in which he is changing reality in order to protect his own psychological defenses. How true, I thought. To have that kind of power probably seemed like it would be heaven, but it is really hell. Thank God I do not have that power over my circumstances. Instead I am forced (slowly and not very willingly) to face reality.

  14. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    I am a bit puzzled that it took me almost a lifetime to realize how limited my view of Christianity was, when possibly someone could have opened my mind.

    Albert, it took me roughly 30+ years to come to Orthodoxy. I very much doubt anyone could have “opened my eyes” prior to that time. Their arguments/entreaties/reasoning would have, to some extent at least, fallen upon deaf ears.

    God in His Providence has brought me here now, in whatever “right” time one may envision. What I do in this moment is far more important than whatever I may have possibly done in the previous ones. I pray God have mercy. Just my thoughts.

  15. Paula AZ Avatar
    Paula AZ

    Albert,
    Thanks for your comment. I like the way you express yourself. You have a gentleness about you that is endearing.
    If I may reply to your question about how to promote to others God’s self-emptying…I truly believe that ‘being’ self-emptying yourself would get their attention so much so that they’d begin to ask you questions or make comments that leave the door open for conversation. That way, they are the ones who inquire rather than you offering information they never asked for. That is not to say you should always be silent! You’ll know when to speak and when not…pray always for guidance. And allow for some “flubs” along the way!
    As for your concern that you may have come to this knowledge of God sooner if someone would have told you, I have thought that many times myself! But really, the “what if’s” can not be answered. God saw to it that you would be in the right place at the right time, no sooner or no later. You can’t answer what would have happened if someone told you, simply because it didn’t happen! You’ll be OK, Albert…continue on with your heart toward God, as you are doing!

  16. Esmée La Fleur Avatar

    “Our modern life is thought to be a collection of autonomous wills, each vying with others to gain and hold a position of power. Our lives are emotional and psychological negotiations in which the presence of others serve as threats, signaling the possibility that we may need to accept less than what we want. This is a formula for anxiety and depression. We are anxious in that our power over others is limited and ineffective. It becomes depressing in that we are constantly frustrated and unable to have what we want.”

    If everything is either allowed by God or willed by God, then no person or situation can threaten me because all that I have or don’t have is from God. The person or the situation are just the cooperative components in God’s plan for me (whether I like it or not). Once I understood this, I stopped feeling threatened by others and the circumstances that presented themselves to me. When we truly get this at a very deep level, we are freed from negative emotions like anxiety and depression.

    “Self-emptying does not include fixing others.”

    Thank you, Stephen Griswold, for this simple and well-stated truth.

  17. Paula AZ Avatar
    Paula AZ

    Father,
    Thank you for this thoughtful post.
    I am struck by two seemingly opposing images when I contemplate the life of St. John the Baptist, and especially when I observe his icons. We see in him mighty strength and resolve to fulfill his calling. He was known as the greatest of those “born of women”, chosen to prepare the way of the Lord. His appearance in icons has an intensity that is different that our warrior Saints or even the archangels…his expression doubtlessly serious, somber, powerful. His call to repentance was forthright and resolute…”And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force”.
    Yet he is also meek. He willingly defers to the One greater. To baptize his Lord, the Lamb he made way for, had to be most humbling. With a character such as his he willingly gave deference to Christ and the coming Kingdom…no stiff neck, no reluctance, no concern over his honor and esteem. Thought it blessed to be the friend of the Bridegroom. And a short life for one who is the greatest of Saints, who’s end was beheading.
    I do not think that our world out there understands what meekness is. We’ve heard it before, that it is mistaken for weakness. We are given an example in St. John the Baptist of the strength it takes to be meek.
    “…we see that God’s mutual self-emptying is more than an occasional action: it is a way of being. And, it is the very manner of existence that St. Paul urges on us as well.”
    This is a high calling, Father! May God give more grace!

  18. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Paula AZ
    When I was writing this piece, I thought of Moses, as well (also played by Charlton Heston). The Scriptures say that Moses was “the meekest man on the face of the earth.” Rather strange that we never picture him in that manner.

  19. Paula AZ Avatar
    Paula AZ

    Indeed Father, Moses too. If Moses had been anything but meek I do not think he could have served the Lord in such a mighty way. God called him, “My servant Moses”! Yes, meekness is strength, a holy strength…this is impossible to depict in a Hollywood film because Hollywood is a representative of another kingdom.
    It takes great strength to be selfless, to deny yourself. To me, that is the epitome of strength.

  20. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    For some reason this passage comes to mind: the 70 going out two by two share the good news—an invitation to faith only with simple demonstration for those who believe, no coercion, no army, no backpack full of supplies, no elaborate programs, no advance scouts….

    After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go. Then He said to them, “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves. Carry neither money bag, knapsack, nor sandals; and greet no one along the road. But whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’ And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest on it; if not, it will return to you. And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house. Whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you. And heal the sick there, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ But whatever city you enter, and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, ‘The very dust of your city which clings to us we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near you.’ …

    “Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.” And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

    “In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
    (Luke 10:1-11,17-22)

  21. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    As a side note, Father’s audio book, Everywhere Present is now available on Audible (along with some other good selections such as Laurus and At the Corner of East and Now)!

  22. Samuel Avatar
    Samuel

    Father Stephen, your thoughts ring true, and I have increasingly been thinking about opting out of the voting process altogether. It seems like a constant choices between the lesser of two evils, and I’m tired of voting for evil and enmeshing myself in a corrupt system. We really have far less power than we think we do, and even if we did have power in our votes, it seems the increasing violence of politics and the struggle for power is increasingly un-Christian (if it ever were to begin with). It is exactly the opposite of the divine kenosis of which you speak. Yet, I have heard some say that refusing to vote is an immoral an abdication of our Christian responsibility to honor legitimate government. On the other hand, voting isn’t a requirement for citizenship. Do you have any thoughts on this?

  23. Drewster2000 Avatar
    Drewster2000

    Melba,

    Thanks for your story about the sign of the cross. Children possess great wisdom before it is taught out of them. There is surely some important significance to the use of mathematical signs in our relationship to God.

  24. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Samuel,
    For what it’s worth, I have stopped voting for the very reasons you cite. Others may do as their conscience directs. However, the argument that refusing to vote is an immoral act, an abdication of our Christian responsibility is false.

    If someone presents you with two abhorrent alternatives, say, “pick which of your children you want us to kill and will let the other one go,” there is no “moral” choice. There is only the evil that is inviting you to share in its actions.

    There were free elections in the Soviet Union, with only one candidate. But voting for that candidate was used to proclaim that everything was “democratic.” I personally believe that the powers that be are primarily enthralled to corporate interests of one sort or another and that issues such as abortion, etc., are only being used to motivate the electorate between one of two enthralled political groups. I have come to the personal conclusion that I no longer want to participate in their madness and deception, or to agree to the pretense that what we have is a democracy. We do not. One American thinker once opined, “If democracy actually worked, we wouldn’t be allowed to vote.”

    The Congress is not functional, the executive is largely out of control (and not just at the moment). We are a corporate empire with the largest army in the world. I am choosing to say, “No, thank you.” I offer no suggestion that this is right. It’s simply the only thing that I have found that gives my conscience peace. I am not in charge of this country, nor do I bear a responsibility to participate in a system that has become so utterly corrupt.

  25. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    If anyone would like to see some corroboration for Fr. Stephen’s convictions about the subversion of the democratic processes of “free” nations, including ours, I invite you to examine the material being presented in hearings here:
    https://commission.itnj.org/

    I just finished listening to the testimony of Commissioner, Justin Walker, which directly touches on the things Fr. Stephen mentions here.

    I caution that the material being presented is not for the faint of heart. Do not watch or listen within earshot of the vulnerable—minors and those weak in faith.

  26. Samuel Avatar
    Samuel

    Fr. Stephen, Thank you for your comments. I appreciate your perspective on this issue.

  27. Alec Brooks Avatar
    Alec Brooks

    Thank you for this most insightful article. It reminded of the words of George MacDonald: “Nothing is required of man that is not first in God.”

  28. Dee of St Hermans Avatar
    Dee of St Hermans

    Fr Stephen,
    I too cannot participate in this evil. God help us.

  29. Paula AZ Avatar
    Paula AZ

    [Karen…before I went to post this, in response to your verses in Luke, I checked to see if other comments were posted. Sure enough, there was…and there was your link to ITNJ. Well, I guess I wasn’t too far off base! I have to muster up the fortitude to listen to the videos though, because this stuff just hurts…but I thank you.
    Also, thank you Father for answering Samuel’s question. I agree wholeheartedly.]

    Karen,
    As I re-read the verses in Luke, it is, of coarse, with an eye to the flow of conversation…self-emptying, meekness/strength. But actually, the first thing that came to mind when I read your comment was your present situation “at your backdoor” (in your very own town) regarding human trafficking. I think both lines of thought are congruent.,,i.e. if the commands of Christ to the 70 were followed without their self-emptying, it may have looked like the responses we see today in being compelled to “fix”, or change, or make a difference, in the world. In other words, it would be their own said agenda “for the sake of Christ”.

  30. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    We are being gamed. There are issues that polarize our society and galvanize left and right leaning people into identifying as “liberal” or “conservative”. These prepackaged, preprocessed ready-to-serve plotical identities are the equivalent of a Happy Meal: “Welcome to McAmerica may I take your order, please?” “Yes, I’ll have the McOutrage with a medium order of McIndignation and a large order of Complacency.” “Would you like to super-size that?” Its like the Pink Floyd song “What did you dream? Its alright we told you what to dream.”

  31. Deacon Nicholas Avatar
    Deacon Nicholas

    Regarding a “meek” movie portrayal of Moses, I seem to recall Ben Kingsley as such in a TV movie in the 1990s.

  32. Kevin Avatar
    Kevin

    So, what do I do with the things in my life I’m attached to, but can’t control? I like storms. We’ve had several find various ways to miss our yard in the last week and it made me angry. Someplace 30 miles away could get five and we get table scraps. I can’t participate in making rain happen, so it’s pretty dumb to get that agitated about it. What about things in which we do have some input? I’ve given 15 years of mental and emotional energy to investing for retirement. All that effort, up, down, sideways, whatever, and I’m worse off than had I just stuffed cash under a mattress. It’s all still affected by stuff I can’t control. The Fed, foreign central banks, corporate earnings announcements, whatever Twitterthumbs happens to be on about on any given day. But I can’t do nothing, right? I have to invest for the end of our working life. I can’t bank on anyone to take care of us and Social Security will be laughable. Thing is, I can’t do nothing right, at least not consistently enough over time. If I had started out with a very different strategy, we would be okay, but that strategy is now not an option this far behind the eight ball.

    I have become extremely negative and am completely unsurprised when something goes wrong. My wife says I am the leader and should set a positive tone, but I have proven utterly unworthy of the position and see little to be positive about. I don’t want us thinking about what the market is doing when we wake up in the morning. That hardly seems compatible with a good spiritual condition. However, I have no alternative to offer. Giving up gets us nowhere. It just makes the loss permanent. I don’t know how to live a “self-emptying” example when the problems I’ve made for us are my own responsibility. “Going spiritual” here would look like escapism–some kind of midlife crisis. I feel obligated to fix it, or at least to ask God to fix it, but what can I really do, assuming it is even God’s will?

  33. sgage Avatar
    sgage

    Kevin,
    That’s a heck of a testimony. It seems to me that ‘giving up’ would be an excellent start. I have no idea what kind of lifestyle you live, or what your wife is accustomed to, or even how old you are. But if you think you are going to game the financial system, well, good luck with that.

    Seriously, if I were you (and I feel your pain – I lost everything to medical expenses 10 years ago in my early 50’s, along with my ability to make a living), I would seriously consider some heavy-duty downsizing. Get out of debt for a start, even if it’s a long, slow process – get going. Seriously, do some hard budgeting. Which of your ‘needs’ are really ‘wants’? Or keeping up with the Joneses. And maybe you need to hang out with new Joneses. Don’t tie up your sense of self worth with your net worth.

    You and your wife need to very openly and honestly confront and discuss the situation, and make some command decisions. Oh boy can that be crazy hard. But there is NO alternative. Having lived a certain lifestyle does not entitle you to live that lifestyle. But you CAN downsize, you can simplify, you can find real joy and delight in things that don’t cost a penny. The sooner you start, the easier it will be in the long run.

    There is so much more I could share with you, but given the venue here, I will close with this:

    Read the Gospels. Much of what Jesus says is for you. It becomes about priorities…

  34. Esmée La Fleur Avatar

    Kevin – I’m sorry you are feeling so much angst about your financial situation. I have been very ill most of my life which has left me living on the edge financially for decades. I have been homeless twice in my life for 2 years each time. I have made stupid decisions to live with unhealthy men more than once just to have a roof over my head. Those decisions always ended in disaster. After the last one, I said I would live under a bridge before I made that mistake again. All of my choices were made from a place of fear, and my fear was the result of not being able to give my life to God and trust Him utterly and completely to take care of me in whatever way He saw best. I can honestly say that all of the experiences I have had as a result of my stupid decisions have brought me closer to God. Once I had nothing else to lose, I was able to truly “let go and let God” so-to-speak. It has not been easy, but all of my needs have been met along the way, both from my church community and other friends I have made through Facebook. Everything that comes to us or does not come to us is entirely at the discretion of God. Blaming yourself for where you are is completely unhelpful. We are all fallen people living in a fallen world. You made the best decisions you could have from where you stood at the time you made them and everything has worked out the way it has according to God’s will or God’s permission. Ask God to help guide you as you move forward, and He will.

  35. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Kevin,

    We are all ultimately in the hands of the “good God who loves mankind.” No matter how careful we are in our financial planning—one medical catastrophe, act of war, or global market crash later, we could all be destitute. We would still have the Gospel of Christ in His Church. Do the best you can with what you’ve got. (My husband and I are of modest means, but we do use the services of a good financial planner. When I asked about the various predictions of immanent financial collapse I was seeing in some places last year, and whether we should be doing something different in light of that, he said he views that as “fear porn” and that these predictions are always around. Of course the markets will go up and down, but principles of sound financial planning/stewardship do not change.) Seek first His Kingdom. Obey the commandments of Christ. He has promised to provide, and ultimately our security has to be in Him. I’m preaching to myself as much as anyone here. Thinking of the markets first thing in the morning? Ouch! Speaking from experience, what an anxiety-provoking gut twister! You need a change of orientation, as do we all. Start your morning and end your day focused on Christ. Use whatever prayers or means you have at your disposal that will help you do this. If you have one, seek the spiritual direction of your Confessor. God give you grace!

  36. sgage Avatar
    sgage

    Kevin,
    I said ‘much of what Jesus says is for you’. Obviously everything that Jesus says is for you, and me, and everybody. I just meant for you in this predicament.
    Time to really stop and deeply contemplate your options. You do have options, and you do have blessings, and you have things to be thankful for. Pray. Don’t forget to breathe – I was in a real panic financially for a while, and I know how crazy it can get… it will work out.
    How is your wife?

  37. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Kevin,
    If I may, I would like to share some things with you. First, when you find yourself feeling persistently negative or susceptible to negativity thats a sign of a chronic stress. It will help you immensely to have a short list of simple stress management exercises. Stress is chemical and your body has natural ways of scrubbing out of your system. Sleep is number one. You have to find a way to get good sleep on a regular basis. Also try simple low impact exercises like 30-45 walks will turn on homeostatic mechanics that will scrub the cortisol out of your system. And LAUGH. You have to find a way to preserve your sense of humor. Laughing is very good for you. Take the time to sit down and take notice of the small things. For example, find some ants and watch them work. Watch what they do down to the tiniest detail that your attention and vision can resolve. Half of any battle is your state of mind. These are a few that help me regain my internal composure. Second, living a self-emptying life means that whatever it is youre doing…do it sacramentally. Some people are very aggressive and others arent. But regardless of who we are or how we are we can live sacramental lives. Third, I dont know anything about Gods will. I would love to say that I do, but I dont. I wish I did…but I dont. But you can accept it as Gods will because that is the only way your faith can turn any tragedy into triumph. Im saying what Gods will is because who could ever say? But I can say unequivocally that the depth of your darness has within it the potential for an even greater light. Now that is something I know as a matter of fact. You still have air in your lungs, so have faith and courage.

  38. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    Everything that comes to us or does not come to us is entirely at the discretion of God.

    This. I confessed before our Priest tonight and, as usual, it was the same thing yet again. But he surprised me by saying, “You have confessed this before” and then saying “Learn to ignore it. God will take these temptations away when He wills so expect it to be here for now but learn to ignore it.” I had not considered simply ignoring my temptations; I have always been about trying to deny or destroy them in some fanciful, spiritual manner. Like a child who sits and screams for attention; sometimes the right parenting practice is simply to deny them that attention.

    In the case of finances, perhaps the best thing to do is practice contentment. Get up in the morning, pray in thankfulness for the day, kiss your wife (if you are married), hug your children and encourage them for the day (if you have children at home), get dressed and go to work. Be content and ignore the temptations that say “you should have done better”. As Father constantly reminds us all, give thanks in all things. I pray all of our encouragement (for that is really what it is) is of help to you.

  39. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    So at Gods discretion some children get cancer and others dont???

  40. Esmée La Fleur Avatar

    It’s a hard word Simon, but yes.

    All the Saints I have read say that everything comes to us either through God’s will or God’s permission.

  41. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    The holocaust came at Gods permission??

  42. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    Simon,
    Of course, even a WWIII would. would it not? Even the eternal damnation of His brightest angel can only ever occur with ‘permission’; even ‘philosophically’, how could anything occur without it if He is God?
    If I want to go out and sin, (whether this is a small sin such as not ignoring the bad thoughts that come to me, or a massive one such as torturing innocents with pleasure), if I persist despite the hindrances in my path God sets, He will eventually allow that demand of my freedom-to-be-enslaved-to-sin to pass: it’s the tragedy of not being an automaton in a sense.
    [Of course, how God also makes things work out for my victims (including myself if I want to accept this) is another story –it’s the discussion on His unsearchable Providence…]

    The answer He provides to this tragedy has been -from before all ages- His Cross.
    He doesn’t even say a word to the prodigal prior to his sinful wonderings -He accepts His own ‘crucifixion’ from his prodigal sons from the very start by creating them with respect for their freedom of self-determination towards Him.

  43. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Dino, God’s parenting is exactly the problem for us. Are we not a bit like two year old’s throwing tantrums if we do not get what we want and then blaming the parent for the consequences when we do?

    He allows us to live with the consequences of our rebellion. We do not like that. Sin as evidence of no God is only a way to avoid looking at one’s own sins. Long ago, even before I encountered Him, I had come to the conclusion that the Christian paradigm (what I knew of it) gave the only satisfactory explanation of evil. Not until Fr. Stephan switched the question:. Why is there goodness? did I see a more complete picture.

    Each of us experiences God’s mercy and provision all the time. I am usually too self-absorbed to notice and too arrogant to really give thanks when I do. I cannot even begin to imagine what life would be like if I lived it in tottal submission to His love giving thanks for His providential care. Every once in awhile I allow my heart to soften just enough….

    It is not magic though as God suddenly making everything conform to my will.

  44. Agata Avatar
    Agata

    Dino and Michael,
    Beautiful comments, thank you!
    I especially love Michael’s:
    Sin as evidence of no God is only a way to avoid looking at one’s own sins.

    I am usually too self-absorbed to notice or too arrogant to really give thanks when I do

    How very true!

  45. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Are we not a bit like two year old’s throwing tantrums if we do not get what we want and then blaming the parent for the consequences when we do?

    No, Michael, we’re not like children throwing a tantrum for blaming God for the holocaust. We’re putting the blame exactly where it belongs. If I let one of my children rape and kill my other children, then I am by my permission participating in that evil of that child. And if my other children resented me for allowing that to happen, wouldn’t their resentment be justified? In Fr’s comments above he says:

    I have come to the personal conclusion that I no longer want to participate in their madness and deception, or to agree to the pretense that what we have is a democracy…I am not in charge of this country, nor do I bear a responsibility to participate in a system that has become so utterly corrupt.

    This comment will in all likelihood be deleted, but it makes my point. If merely voting for a candidate is participation in whatever evil the system is committing, then God’s “Yes” to the existence of evil is participation in that evil. God’s ability to prevent evil entails a responsibility to do so. His decision to allow evil is equivalent to a vote for the existence of evil.

  46. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    Simon,
    Those parallels might sound logical but I don’t think they do upon closer inspection, especially since we humans judge what is ‘good’ and what is ‘evil’ from the confines of a tiny spot in time…

    Just think of the harm we were allowed to inflict upon Christ Himself upon the Cross. What good came from that evil?

    So it would be more correct I think if you altered your example by saying that: If I let one of my children rape and kill my other children, knowing that, this way, the eternal salvation of all my children (who desire it) will result without taking away their freedom of self-determination, then I am by my permission participating in a ‘blessing in disguise’ of that child. And if my other children temporarily resented me for allowing that to happen, their resentment would be short-sited?

    Also, democracy as a smokescreen of freedom and power, (a concealment for the covert dominance of some deep state) is not the same as God creating creatures with true self-determination towards Him. The fact that creatures can cause temporary harm to other creatures cannot be interpreted as eternal harm.

  47. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Sin as evidence of no God is only a way to avoid looking at one’s own sins.
    I disagree completely. Sin is evidence to the contrary or against the argument for the existence of a particular kind of God. Evil is evidence against the existence of a particular kind of God. I’m so sorry, but this Orthodox mindset that ‘all things are sent down from God’ and ‘subject to to his holy will’ but God isnt responsible for any of it is irrational.

  48. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    I have learned, Dino, that I would rather accept the hopeless absurdity of a world without God than believe in a God that uses rape and execution as the means of salvation. What kind of god would create a world where suffering evil is the medium through which salvation is attained??

  49. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    Simon my dear brother please remember we are speaking of a crucified God who bore al evil and not a Zeus.

  50. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Dino, how does that make a difference at all??

  51. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Simon,
    It’s a good and fair question regarding God’s participation in evil by permitting it. It is, as you and I have discussed, the point of Ivan Karamazov in his famous diatribe.

    That God’s goodwill is at work despite evil is important. That He permits evil is obviously inherent in permitting our freedom, and even the freedom of a universe that is “subject to futility.” What kind of God is He is certainly made known in what He does. He is a God who permits freedom, on the one hand, and He is a God who interjects Himself into the consequences of that freedom. He is crucified in every moment of suffering by every and any human being. His suffering in every moment by every human being is also, like the Cross, the transformation of every suffering moment into the salvation of the Cross. The mystery of Pascha is present in everything.

    It does not make any of the suffering good. But it makes the evil deeds of our freedom of no effect, ultimately. It is a redemption that preserves our freedom. That, I think, is the path of love.

  52. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    One difficulty that comes with thinking about this comes from within our own experience of suffering and trauma. The pain of that, particularly when it is very deep and serious, burns within us. It produces its own sort of rage. It is not so much a question as it is an agony. Agony is not something that responds well to reason or discussion. It belongs to a very different part of who we are.

    I heard in your first question, “So God permits a child to die of cancer?” Not a question but an agony. It is full of pain. When the pain is active (as it seems to have been over the course of the comments) it’s good to pull back. Pushing it only drives the agony. It is not a good time to press the questions. Those questions are better placed – and placed with God – at a time when the agony is at bay.

    In a certain manner, our own experience and suffering can be a “beam” in our eye. We cannot get past it. Everything rhymes with it. There are those, and I know you know them, who personally experienced the holocaust and yet, have peace and believe in God. The question becomes, “How did they get there? and How can I get there?”

    To say “I don’t get all this Orthodox stuff about ‘all things are sent down from God’ – is, in fact, saying, “When I hear that it reawakens very deep and painful wounds.” That is a very accurate and useful way to approach the matter.

  53. Paula AZ Avatar
    Paula AZ

    Forgive me, Simon for my harshness toward you.
    “One difficulty that comes with thinking about this comes from within our own experience of suffering and trauma. The pain of that, particularly when it is very deep and serious, burns within us. It produces its own sort of rage. It is not so much a question as it is an agony. Agony is not something that responds well to reason or discussion.”
    Yes Father. I was incensed. My heart was beating l00mph. I should have known. Thank you for deleting my comment.
    Forgive me, Simon.

  54. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Paula, there is nothing to forgive. I wish Fr wouldnt delete comments directed at me even if they do seem harsh. I like the idea of putting it all out on the table.

    Pain or not. I stand by my comments. The reason behind them is solid. You cant argue against the validity. You might not agree and you may be offended, but you cant challenge the soundness of the argument. It is precisely the conclusion Job came to and God said of Job to his three false comforters “You have not spoken rightly about as has my servant Job.”

    Sarah Moses is a living miracle. Sheis the miracle. And, as I understand it, her faith is the “mechinism” that mediates her triumph over tragedy. But that doesnt change the fact of God’s participation in the evil she suffered. Her imprisonment and persecution was ordered by the Nazi regime and God said “Let it be.”

  55. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Simon,
    There is a mystery in that “let it be.” Christ said, “Let it be” to his own crucifixion as well, and to the whole dirty history of the world. I do not think we solve that mystery from the outside – only from the inside. Dino noted earlier, that we say “God permits” because it is obvious that He permits. These things have taken place and have been permitted to take place.

    For myself, the mystery of His “let it be” is resolved in His Pascha. I can imagine a world in which bad things are never allowed to happen. If I allow myself to really think about it – it’s a version of hell. There would simply be no freedom – a sort of Stepford Wife existence for us all. Freedom is apparently truly necessary to the fullness of our existence – an inherent part of our salvation and the life of grace. And it comes at a frightful price – up to an including the suffering and death of God Himself.

    It is, I believe, the path towards the fullness of our existence in His image. We must honor all of those who suffer, as though they had died for our sins (they did). Christ gathers all of our permitted freedom into Himself and His Cross. What was meant to us for evil (ultimately of our own devising) He has meant to us for good.

    That is the mystery of the Cross. I think the only way around such a mystery would be to say that it would have been better if God never created the world – that the price of human existence in His image is too great. That ultimately is Ivan’s conclusion. Apparently, God disagrees. I think that the only way to fathom God’s understanding in this – why He does not see the price as too high – is to enter into the mystery and go deeper and deeper. I think that an approach to that can be found in the practice of thanksgiving for everything and always – it is not a confession that says “I like everything, it please me.” It is a confession of the paradox and contradiction and, by grace, allows us to enter into the hell of human suffering and not despair. The Elder Sophrony once said that Christ has entered into the very depths of hell and is waiting for His friends to meet Him there.

    To glibly look at the suffering of the world and find a syllogism that allows us to walk away would be tragic and wrong. To say, “God permits,” as though that removes the agony is a mistake. We can say, “God permits,” and then walk into the contradiction and meet Him there. Jonah sings from the belly of the whale. The Three Young Men sing in the fires of the furnace. We have to enter into the same place to find the song that is the mystery of God’s providence – the salvation of all things.

  56. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Simon,
    I found your comment to Kevin about what helps with stress very helpful to me as well. A lot of wisdom in that comment. Thanks!

  57. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    BTW,
    Concerning my personal choice not to participate in the political madness. I do not think that decision relieves me of responsibility in and for the madness. I am fully a part of it and have to pray and repent from inside it and not as though I’m free and stand outside it. My choice not to engage in politics (including by voting) is a decision not to participate in one aspect of it. But it does not place me above it or out of it.

    Also, my decisions on deleting comments are varied. Sometimes it’s not about the people or conversation involved. We have this conversation in front of thousands. Not everything is helpful in that context. We sometimes comment as though we were in a private conversation. I have to always remember and act responsibly with what is a very public stage – on behalf of all and for all.

  58. Dennis Avatar
    Dennis

    The evil we see “out there” is in us as well. It is part of our Cross. We also suffer, like God suffers through being incarnated as Christ.

    But in our case we suffer without fully knowing why, as to the deeper causes of the “evil” that we experience in ourselves. Does it come from our past wounds, our weakness, our ingrained rebellion and disobedience? Does it come from “deamons”?

    Yes, there is something irrational about these inner influences because they are not subject to the control of the conscious ego – even as events in the world at large appear irrational and absurd. But that does not make them less real or powerful.

    Trying to make sense of this intellectually alone will never bring a satisfactory result.

  59. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Fr, I didnt see your first response. So, what I am struggling to see is how to reconcile myself to the fact or the possibility of God’s–for the lack of better word–complicity in the permission of evil. Hear is what I hear you saying “Yes, God has permitted every evil committed. But, he has his reasons and every insult and injury he bears in himself.” To me this is like the parent who says of an unruly child “Yes, I know her hurts the other children in the family, but he hurts me too.” That doesnt justify the parent’s permission of the suffering of the other children.

    I know that any rationalizing about human suffering is to trivialize it, to treat it as mundane. It should never be fodder for an argument. So in some sense this kind of approach seems asinine. Im compelled to have those thoughts, but they seem superficial. Im aware of that.

    I cant help but feel like the ultimate explanation for human suffering is that on the cross we see a kenotic and dying God. Death and entropy are woven into the fabric of creation: Systems go cold and highly ordered, stars die, galaxies collide, black holes gobble up all the surrounding matter, etc. On a biological scale, telomeres shorten, mutations in our DNA accumulate, differential potentials reach equilibrium. Death and disorder seem fundamental.

    I want to believe that the Cross is an icon not just an icon of the human condition but it is also a revelation regarding the universe as a whole, that the death and resurrection of God are the forces of creation. The universe is cruciform and creation is ongoing. Perhaps the space in which we live and move and have our being is continuously created by the kenotic action of Christ and the potential it has for life derives from the power of the resurrection. And in such a universe Zeus like gods are precluded. That doesnt make the holocaust easier to accept. We should never be at ease with suffering. But if there is no Zeus sitting on the throne with a stick, then what do we have? Perhaps we have a God whose very “life” and “death” becomes the engine which drives the creation, expansion, and fulfillment of the universe. So, in a sense God is dead and does not exist, but is also the one in whom we live and move and have our being. And in such a universe perhaps it is the death case that is the evil we suffer that becomes the means to a new creation.

  60. Margaret Avatar
    Margaret

    Thank you for your words here in the comments section, Fr. Stephen! I usually do not read the comments of others, only your comments and that is because of what you describe here above: “One difficulty that comes with thinking about this comes from within our own experience of suffering and trauma. The pain of that, particularly when it is very deep and serious, burns within us. It produces its own sort of rage. It is not so much a question as it is an agony. Agony is not something that responds well to reason or discussion. It belongs to a very different part of who we are.

    I heard in your first question, “So God permits a child to die of cancer?” Not a question but an agony. It is full of pain. When the pain is active (as it seems to have been over the course of the comments) it’s good to pull back. Pushing it only drives the agony. It is not a good time to press the questions. Those questions are better placed – and placed with God – at a time when the agony is at bay.

    In a certain manner, our own experience and suffering can be a “beam” in our eye. We cannot get past it. Everything rhymes with it. There are those, and I know you know them, who personally experienced the holocaust and yet, have peace and believe in God. The question becomes, “How did they get there? and How can I get there?”

    To say “I don’t get all this Orthodox stuff about ‘all things are sent down from God’ – is, in fact, saying, “When I hear that it reawakens very deep and painful wounds.” That is a very accurate and useful way to approach the matter.”

    God bless you, Fr. Stephen, for taking time to write these words.

  61. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    Many thanks, Father, for your elucidation on evil and suffering.

  62. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Simon,
    I think your description of the kenotic action of Christ and its relation to the universe are spot on. My own heart in the matter says that this relationship is the very depth of love itself and it is that mystery of love that I have yet to fully enter much less comprehend.

    St. Paul uses the term “mystery” not to obfuscate things – but to describe their hidden character. That itself, I think, is intentional – and means to draw us deeper into who and what we are to become.

  63. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    Simon,

    The Ancient Greeks -mainly the stoics- often returned to the idea that it is not so much suffering that man has a problem with, but the lack of meaning in suffering.

    Meaninglessness of its own is a taste of hell. In fact, a lack of meaning (a lack of the “logos” of being, if you like) is the deepest quintessence of hell.
    But a world without freedom (and therefore without suffering, but also without truly kenotic love) would also be a world lacking meaning/logos. As Father stated, the price of human existence in God’s image, is terribly great, and yet God sees that it is worth having freedom of self determination, in His image, rather than not. Furthermore, He arranges everything in His providence, so that meaning can eventually even come out of our absurdity.

    Ivan Karamazov’s famous diatribe also speaks of the senselessness of suffering. It is a very human voice, that, even God incarnate uttered in His concession when crying: “why hast Thou forsaken me”.

    But Christ the divine Logos, “meaning Himself”, lived and died according to “Thy will be done”. He has offered us the paschal path of transformation of death, suffering and evil and it is there for the taking.

    The human interpretation of these might be an angst-filled tragedy, but –as we clearly see in the martyrs (the quintessence of Christianity)– it is precisely through these (death, suffering and evil) that they are perfected to finally sing forever the paschal hymn ‘For Christ God has brought us from death unto life and from earth unto heaven!’

    That we have a crucified God, (and He offers us this path of His, of savific agony that can be eucharistically joyous), on the level of abstract syllogism does little to aid us in the times of our unbearable agony. Abstract syllogisms of agony, on the other hand, are often felt as experiences of hell….
    On another level however, that we have a crucified God (when we decide to surrender to His path of savific agony that can be eucharistically joyous) transforms all suffering and then by encountering such a Lord along that path we utter with Job:

    “My ears had heard of You earlier, but now my eyes have seen You. Therefore I retract my words, and I repent” (Job 42:5-6)

    This great mystery of faith is explained beautifully by St Isaac the Syrian in his ‘On Faith and Humility’. He makes the point that without faith and based upon human syllogisms and refined rationalisations we doubt every good and find every evil, whereas when we struggle to retain faith (in God’s hidden paschal providence) -despite challenges to the contrary – we behold secretly that there is Someone taking perfect care of us and (as many have done before) we can even jump right into the fire without fear.

  64. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Fr, Dino, thank you for your feedback. Thank you, Fr., for your patience and understanding.

  65. Another Anna Avatar
    Another Anna

    Simon,
    Sometimes I imagine God as a stooped over old man with a broom and a dustpan, constantly and lovingly sweeping up our messes, crying alongside us as he works to make something good out of the destruction we have wrought and the destruction we have inherited in our own bodies, psyches, families and environment.
    It’s a metaphor that breaks down at points, but is the one I’ve found helpful to inform my understanding of providence, where God is almighty, but because of our free will, we collectively as human beings create such a toxic environment that it’s a mercy that God is there to clean up after us as the healer of the broken and the sick.

  66. Dee of St Hermans Avatar
    Dee of St Hermans

    Fr Stephen,
    I appreciate your elaboration at 9:28am. Your words I wish to highlight:

    I do not think that decision relieves me of responsibility in and for the madness. I am fully a part of it and have to pray and repent from inside it and not as though I’m free and stand outside it. My choice not to engage in politics (including by voting) is a decision not to participate in one aspect of it. But it does not place me above it or out of it.

    There is an ongoing written and oral stance that appears to be taken among Orthodox clergy and laity to position ourselves outside of our political situation, as if these circumstances have no relation to ourselves or our actions in it. So called ‘warnings’, expressions often used to influence and color the thoughts of others, appear more like passions.

    These are the stimuli typically used by the media. Unfortunately the objectives of the media are usually to obfuscate the conditions and circumstances to make any ‘individual’ action to be seen as ineffective. Our goal, as you have said many times is to follow Christ’s commandments to our best ability. And to those among us who do have power, to wield it justly, according to Christ’s commandments. Let us remember God’s meekness, and the meekness of St John and Moses. God has acted powerfully through the meek in the past. So He can again, God willing.

  67. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Dee,
    I think we cannot and should not wash our hands of anything. That said, refusing to participate is not refusing responsibility. My refusal to participate has largely come from thinking about Solzhenitsyn’s essay, “Live Not By Lies.” I by no means think that it is immoral to vote or that democracies are wrong, or any such thing. I think ours is deeply broken and that the nation has been taken over by corporate interests.

    It is interesting today as I write, the Right to Life movement stands poised for a victory that has taken decades to create. I’m expecting the public noise to reach a pitch of insanity before its done. It is likely that this same moment will be repeated before the President’s term is over – putting in place a conservative majority on the court that has not existed since before FDR.

    It will make some changes in the present legal apparatus. It will not change people. The Right to Life movement had to mature, to go through the near violence of the protests that marked Operation Rescue. The Left does not have that maturity – and has a preponderance of the youth – a very volatile group. All of that analysis is just to say that things are going to get nastier than we’ve ever seen them.

    But, when I offer the Eucharist on Sundays, I remember that the Lamb on the Discos is surrounded by the saints as well as the living and the departed (in the arrangement of the bread crumbs). When that Eucharist is offered, it is on behalf of all and for all – and everyone on the plate is offered – and, for me, all suffering, all joy, everything is offered. The world and everything in it was created to be an offering. That is my participation for now, until I see something that I should participate in as well.

  68. Dee of St Hermans Avatar
    Dee of St Hermans

    Yes, Father, I understand what you’re saying, and agree. I’ll admit, I too have a tendency to see the situation to be like a powder keg– an old fashioned term–these societal divisions are not new sorrows, we have seen them in the past, as you allude. But the fallout, that is, the resulting impact of these divisions ‘taking up force’, looks like it’s heading toward something nastier than anything we have known in the past. God help us.

    I’m trying to learn as much as I can, to understand ‘the truth’ as best as I can without the polemic–a difficult path indeed. God help us in our clarity and charity. And like you, I will ‘step up to the plate’ should the occasion arise, where God’s will is clear for my own participation. I ask for your prayers for my discernment of God’s will.

    And I’m grateful for your offering for all.

  69. Kevin Avatar
    Kevin

    Another Anna,
    The “God of the Dustpan” analogy is interesting, but it now makes me wonder…why did God simply flush the first batch of humans down the cosmic toilet a thousand years or so after Adam and then switch to another approach? Did the pre-Noahic people really make that much more of a wreck of things than those who came after? If Christ died for them, too, why did God’s forbearance have a limit at that point? How evil could they have been? Just looking at the 20th Century, I can’t imagine how much worse they could’ve been.

  70. Another Anna Avatar
    Another Anna

    Hi Kevin,
    That’s a good question. A thought that comes to mind is that the God of the Old Testament is revealed most clearly in Christ crucified, but I don’t have the theological understanding to take it too much further… It’s also confusing for me to see what was going on there. The flood does seem like less of a dustpan, and more like a… bulldozer?

  71. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Kevin,
    Not to upset anyone, but the Noah material should be examined theologically rather than historically in my opinion. It is a story of judgment and of mercy – but not the story of a starting over. Noah lived before the flood as well.

  72. Paula AZ Avatar
    Paula AZ

    Father,
    I’m glad you said that about the “Noah material”. Apparently this is upsetting to some people, but that’s a whole other ‘megillah’…

  73. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Paula AZ
    I like Fr. Lawrence Farley’s brief article on the topic. There is much, much more to say and deeper, but his points are on the mark.

  74. Paula AZ Avatar
    Paula AZ

    Oh Father….again…glad you said that too….I read the book! It was very helpful for me and I must say, all the creation ‘stories’ fell right into place. Big, big difference from what I was originally taught.

  75. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Kevin, you have good questions. They’re valid. Taken at face value the God of the OT isnt a God at all. But the Orthodox do not begin in Genesis. We begin at the Cross and we move out from there. I think that is an important transition to make. It essentially means that nothing is understood as it should be until it is understood in the light of the Cross. There are plenty of things to object to in the OT. I will object to all of them with you. But if we’re going to do that, then what do we do next? Do we toss the Bible? What’s the next step? For what little it’s worth I would suggest that we begin at the Cross and once we’ve understood what’s happened there, then many other things will fall into place. The Cross is the foundation. Its the key.

  76. Kevin Avatar
    Kevin

    Simon,

    The statement, “Taken at face value, the God of the OT isn’t a God at all,” cuts close to Marcionism. Marcion really objected to much of the OT and essentially reconstructed theology to make Yahweh into a demigod and to separate Christ from Yahweh and the OT. We “read Christ back into” the OT–the Rock that Israel drank from in the wilderness, the fourth man in the fiery furnace, the pillar of cloud and fire, the Angel of the Lord, etc. We must take what’s there, pleasant or unpleasant, without sugar-coating it or disavowing it.

    If I handed someone a Bible and they asked, “Well, where do I start,” I wouldn’t say Genesis because it’s kind of tough to believe right off the bat and they’ll be floundering in Leviticus pretty soon. I wouldn’t say the gospels because they kind of assume that you already have some knowledge of the OT, otherwise Jesus’ sayings are hard to put into context. Maybe I’d say Romans, or if they happen to be Jewish, Hebrews. The Gentile converts mostly didn’t have any knowledge of the OT and may never have heard it read. Jews had no issue with Genesis because it was integral to their national story. For the rest of us, it’s kind of alien territory and its relevance doesn’t become clear until after we’ve heard Paul “preach” the gospel to us. I watched The Fellowship of the Ring before I read The Hobbit and the whole trilogy. Those left me questions that led me to The Silmarillion and so on. So, you’re right. The Bible is probably the only book best read “backwards.”

  77. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    The statement, “Taken at face value, the God of the OT isn’t a God at all,” cuts close to Marcionism.
    I agree and I’m not concerned by that at all.

    I clearly misunderstood what you wrote by The “God of the Dustpan” analogy is interesting, but it now makes me wonder…why did God simply flush the first batch of humans down the cosmic toilet a thousand years or so after Adam and then switch to another approach? Did the pre-Noahic people really make that much more of a wreck of things than those who came after? If Christ died for them, too, why did God’s forbearance have a limit at that point? How evil could they have been? Just looking at the 20th Century, I can’t imagine how much worse they could’ve been?

    What I heard was a conscience that was struck by the actions of God as reported in the OT. I merely desired to sympathize and then offer something that was of help to me. But, your reference to Marcion makes me think that I completely misunderstood the direction and import of your questions. Forgive me. It seems that I have assumed too much.

  78. Kevin Avatar
    Kevin

    I was just struck by the contrast between the very patient, longsuffering “cosmic janitor” cleaning our messes and the God who got so fed up with whatever humanity was doing that He was ready to wipe us all out. The only reason He didn’t was Noah was righteous in His sight. Had Noah been just another demon-worshiping pagan, God would have really started over and had to create a new humanity. That’s how I read it, at least. I just wasn’t sure what made pre-Flood humanity so much more irretrievably evil that God was willing to go that far. If God intended to redeem Adam and Eve through the Cross from the beginning, this episode is a bit strange. He was considering short-circuiting the entire plan.

  79. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    We have to enter into the same place to find the song that is the mystery of God’s providence – the salvation of all things.
    YES.
    The Elder Sophrony once said that Christ has entered into the very depths of hell and is waiting for His friends to meet Him there.
    I agree to these terms for myself. Its the children who arent given a choice and who dont have the experience and wisdom to understand whats happening to them that grips the mind. We’re so corrupt as a species that we wont even spare the children. There are dark places that know no mercy.

  80. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Kevin,
    Simon said, “taken at face value.” Many of the Fathers would agree. Both Maximus the Confessor and St. Ambrose of Milan used the trilogy, the OT is shadow, the NT is icon, and the reality is the age to come. Christianity rightly reinterprets the OT. We do not read it as the Jews of old did. St. Irenaeus described the Jewish reading of his day (2nd century) as “myths” and didn’t mean it in some sort of nuanced sense.

    We begin with Christ. There is a veil over the OT (Moses) according to St. Paul that can only be lifted by Christ. We say that Christ rose on the 3rd day “according to the Scriptures.” We could add that the OT is read “according to Christ’s Pascha.”

    The preaching of Christ, however, is not done to establish the historical character of the OT. There’s plenty of history there, but not always so. I recommend the article by Fr. Lawrence Farley referenced above.

  81. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    FWIW, Simon, Kevin,
    I think you two are in very different places with lots of different operating assumptions. I suggest not pressing your conversation further.

  82. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Kevin,
    As to giving the Bible to someone to read – I would never do that. The Scriptures have to be taught before they can be read. How to read them requires training, understanding, grounding in doctrine, etc. The Protestants assume that it’s a book that can be read, understood and is self-interpreting. That is not at all the case. The disciples did not understand the Scriptures until Christ opened their eyes. That eye-opening is required for anyone who wants to read the Scriptures as a Christian.

    But because so many who are not trained in the Tradition have decided that they know how to read – our Christian world is filled with opinions, wrong ideas, constant bickering, with everybody and his brother thinking they know what they’re talking about. Even within our Orthodox world, there is a lot of confusion.

    If an Orthodox Christian wants to learn how to read Scripture, they should probably sing in the choir for 3 or 4 years, or at least read and study (and listen) to those texts. They are understanding-in-sung-form. If the principles of that understanding are to be grasped, then someone should go slowly, with a teacher, and ask how it is possible for the hymns of the Church to read the Scriptures in the manner that they do.

    There are many Orthodox, in my experience, who read the Scriptures in the exact same way as Protestants, only assuming that the Tradition will help them do it better. This is a mistake, I think. The work of St. Andrew of Crete in his Great Canon is probably a primer for how we should read. Figuring out history, etc., is just beside the point. I daresay that the disciples and Jesus never had a conversation even remotely approaching the topic. It’s a modern problem.

  83. Paula AZ Avatar
    Paula AZ

    Father Stephen,
    Goodness…more nuggets here! Thank you for your comment above. I regret to say that I would have never known the best way to approach Scripture would begin by attention to our hymns. Aside from attending to them at church, following the printout/pamphlet we receive, and the occasional reference to them in readings, that’s about the extent I have paid attention to them.
    No doubt I am one of those who learned Scripture as a Protestant, and look to Tradition to correct the misguidance. Really, the entire Bible needs to be re-interpreted through the eyes of the Church. The way I approach this now is hit and miss, that is, ‘a little here, a little there’; it would take much longer than the 3-4 years you refer to. As for singing in the choir, I don’t think they’d be too thrilled to have me (!), but I will take your advice to start with St. Andrew’s Canon. I just happen to have the booklet on my shelf!
    If anyone is interested, here is a link that has the entire cannon:
    http://www.orthodox.net/greatlent/
    Thank you Father Stephen so very much.

  84. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Dropped like a hot potato.

  85. Kevin Avatar
    Kevin

    Fr. Stephen,
    Glad you pointed out this potential blind spot I wasn’t aware of regarding reading Scripture. I would’ve just continued on as an “enlightened Protestant” reading Orthodoxy back into it. Something occurred to me yesterday about your view of voting. My understanding is that chrismation is really an ordination into the laity and that being a layman is not just a passive role. I think we could extend that analogy to citizenship and say that we are ordained, in a way, into government. The top of our governmental structure is pretty messed up, but history and circumstance has messed up the Orthodox Church at the Patriarchal level, too. Despite the dysfunction, we still carry out our roles leaving God to work out the problems that are too big for individuals. We have the civic freedom to vote or not vote, but is backing away a kind of schism? Do we risk becoming the civil equivalent of Old Believers? Orthodoxy in America needs to get its act together, become one unified jurisdiction, and be a prophetic voice. All the other prophets are false, but they are loud.

  86. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Kevin,
    Your thoughts viz. citizenship are quite apt. I suppose my non-vote could be seen as a form of protest, nothing more. Were all of Orthodoxy in the US united in a single jurisdiction, we would still be a tiny minority. The government does not care about “voices” other than those that write big, fat checks. The bishops of the Orthodox Church speak with a single, united voice through the “Episcopal Assembly,” that annual gathering of all canonical Orthodox bishops. They have spoken on a number of things. If Pope John Paul II could come to America and describe us as nurturing a “culture of death,” and it had no effect whatsoever, we should not fancy that we will have an impact.

    The political world works by power – we have little or no power. I do not care to use what “power” I have. Rather, I believe that God has a “power” that we do not see, and I am trusting in Him that He will work His will. The Soviet Union came to an end. It was not caused by the US, or by the Pope (popular theories). It really came because Gorbachev surprisingly let it happen. It was the hand of God and caught everybody by surprise.

    My theories of citizenship would probably be troubling to most.

  87. Kevin Avatar
    Kevin

    God had an interesting follow-up plan for Russia, I guess. An inept, alcoholic who accomplished little while the remnants of the KGB and GRU reorganized into crime syndicates–well, I guess one could argue that they were already doing that before the collapse–and then congealing their influence around Vladimir Putin, another ex-KGB with an authoritarian streak. It’s hard not to wonder if all the positive things that seem to be happening for the Church in Russia don’t come with strings attached. Call me skeptical on the idea of the rebirth of “Holy Rus.” Even if it’s the real deal, we might find ourselves in an awkward situation as a more visibly Orthodox nation becomes a greater adversary of our own. I don’t think it was good for ROCOR to wait all those decades to reunite with Moscow. They should have focused on America and becoming a completely American jurisdiction. Now, they may be reunited to something that puts them in a bind.

  88. Drewster2000 Avatar
    Drewster2000

    Fr. Stephen,

    You recommended an article by Fr. Lawrence Farley above. I read it and noticed he has written a number of commentaries on books of the Bible. I was wondering if you could recommend a good series of biblical commentaries – by this man or anyone else.

    I think this question plays into your comment that we really need to be taught how to read the Bible. Commentaries would seem like a good way to learn. Mind you, they need to be something more readable and more blue-collar than DB Hart. No more than 3-syllable words, if you get my meaning. (grin)

  89. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Kevin,
    I have a cousin who married a Russian and is living there and raising a family. You might be surprised by how positive his take is on things. The Russian Church is in far better health than you would ever guess by reading anything in the American press. The abortion rate has dropped by 8x since the fall of the Soviet Union. There are many positive social signs.

    About 1,000 monasteries have opened. You can’t populate monasteries where people give up sex and families, etc., just because they like Putin. There is a legitimate revival of the Church taking place.

  90. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    Kevin
    that’s quite a can of worms you are opening there 🙂
    and this is not the place for that conversation I am sure, all I can say is that I cannot agree with that interpretation of what is going on in Russia [and of Putin] (I find it’s a distinctively western interpretation based on ‘evidence’ which, if looked into is quite unfounded);
    I take issue especially because what I have heard first-hand -e.g. from the athonite confessor of his– is remarkably the opposite.

  91. Paula AZ Avatar
    Paula AZ

    Drewster,
    (Pardon…not Father Stephen here!)
    I have read Fr. Farley’s ‘bookends’, on Genesis and Revelation and found them quite helpful. He is not a three syllable writer yet I think his style and content are fulfilling. Here’s a link to the Matthew commentary with a “Look Inside” option, so you can get the flavor.
    https://www.amazon.com/Gospel-Matthew-Church-Orthodox-Companion/dp/0982277075/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1530297868&sr=1-1-fkmr1&keywords=Gospel+of+matthew+fr+lawrence+farley

    Wow…long link! Hope it works.

  92. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    There is a legitimate revival of the Church taking place.

    I went to Russian in 2015 as part of a pilgrimage. To a person, everyone in our group was amazed at the fact that whenever we went into a church (any church), at any time of day or night, there were people taking part in venerating icons, confession, and worship. It was an amazing thing to walk into a church Tuesday morning at 9am and find people actively worshiping!

    I still remember how surprised I was to see hundreds of people standing outside of the churches (one of two celebrating the Divine Liturgy at the time) at 5:30am in one of the monasteries–because there was no room to stand inside. While I was only there for two weeks, I do believe the “revival” of Orthodoxy in Russia is very real.

  93. Kevin Avatar
    Kevin

    Well, I would like to go to Russia and see for myself, now. Unfortunately, due to the nature of a relative’s career, I may have a teeny problem actually getting a visa to go there.

  94. Drewster2000 Avatar
    Drewster2000

    Thanks Paula AZ, the link works. I scanned it briefly and it looks pretty good and readable. I’ve reviewed more than a few commentaries and this one looks promising.

  95. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Since Western msm has been going to the most ridiculously far-fetched lengths for well over a year to set up Putin’s Russia in the minds of the mind-controlled masses as the enemy of freedom and dignity and the USA, you can pretty much count on the fact the reality is the very opposite. I have long known our media is highly biased and spewing lies and actively hostile to traditional Christian faith and practice, but the last election cycle was the nail in the coffin that what is presented there is in any way, shape or form serving a truthful narrative and the interests of the voting public. There is a much darker and more nefarious agenda at work. I like listening to RT, but it’s rare that I listen to any news. I skim msm headlines occasionally to see what they are furiously trying to pass off as reality or distract us with. Then I try to find and read or listen to Christian historians, cultural analysts, and theologians as well as the people on the ground in the eye of the various storms around the planet who see first hand what is going on. More and more the Church is going to have to form or firm up and rely on her own networks for resources and sound information.

    My Priest this morning said our Metropolitan has written a 16-page document detailing the “four pillars” of the Church’s mission in the world in anticipation of the OCA’s upcoming “All American Council” at the end of this month that he would be working on uploading to the OCA website today. I look forward to reading what Met. Tikhon has to say.

  96. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Well, here’s a link to the announcement of Met. Tikhon’s document. Correction: it is 60 pages in length, not 16!

    https://oca.org/news/headline-news/metropolitan-tikhons-of-what-life-do-we-speak-released

  97. Dean Avatar
    Dean

    Fr. Freeman ,
    Thank you for what you continue to remind us of, i.e., reading of the OT through Christ’s Pascha. And the importance of our hymns to seat and settle us firmly in the Church’s tradition. Scales literally have to fall from our eyes to lose our Protestant reading of Scripture.
    Karen, yes, our secular news “services” are horribly biased and as my Arkansas mother-in-law would say, “womp-a-jawed.” Many Russian believers visit the Greek monastery. Our first 3 years were in a Serbian congregation. They were so welcoming to us converts! I have a soft spot in my heart for our troparia sung in church slavonic.

  98. Dean Avatar
    Dean

    Forgot to add…we’re on vacation. Have had no news for one week…very refreshing!

  99. Dean Avatar
    Dean

    Sorry my above comments are so disjointed. Written on the fly. Yes, the OT can be a bitter pill to swallow, and as Father has noted, the veil to read it correctly can only be lifted by Christ. Having said that, may I suggest that one read a portion of the Psalms daily. The deprecatory Psalms can be understood as our own internal enemies, our own “demons,” struggles with the inner man. And they contain some of the greatest praise and gratitude passes in the Bible. A marvelous antiphony. And the major prophets can be read to great benefit. Perhaps one can start with the Suffering Servant passages of Isaiah 42, as they point directly to the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world. At one time I too grieved over some of what I read in the early “history” of Israel. Over the years what Father has written has greatly softened for me these narratives. I truly hope my heart has also been softened through years of liturgy and the Church’s hymnography and prayers. Glory to God for all things!

  100. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    “This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it!”

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