How to Find the Answers

And behold, an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a minister of the Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of all her treasure, had come to Jerusalem to worshipand was returning; seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah.And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.”

So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?”

And he said, “How can I, unless some one guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.Now the passage of the scripture which he was reading was this: “As a sheep led to the slaughter or a lamb before its shearer is dumb, so he opens not his mouth.In his humiliation justice was denied him. Who can describe his generation? For his life is taken up from the earth.”

And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, pray, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?”Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this scripture he told him the good news of Jesus.

And as they went along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What is to prevent my being baptized?” (Acts 8:27-36)

I can think of no passage in the Scriptures that better illustrates the inherent problem surrounding their reading: you must already know the answer to the question to find the answer to the question.

If that sounds like a tautology, it is. For the “answer” is not found in the Scriptures, per se, but in Christ as the Church knows Him and has received Him (Jn. 5:39). This is precisely what St. Philip is doing with the Ethiopian Eunuch.

The passage from Isaiah, on its face, is rather opaque. The Eunuch reads it and wonders whether the prophet is speaking about himself or someone else. There is no clue in the text that would yield an answer. However, this text belongs to the poetic passages known as the “Suffering Servant Songs.” They were seen by the Church as pointing to Christ, the fulfillment of the suffering servant. But the Church did not arrive at this conclusion by its own careful study. It was given to them.

In St. Luke’s gospel, we hear the account of the two disciples with the risen Christ on the road to Emmaus. They are puzzled about what has happened in Jerusalem and are not sure what to think:

And [Jesus] said to them, “O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Lk. 24:25-27)

“Moses and all the prophets…” Christ begins to set out for them the trail of interpretation from the five books of Moses through the rest of the prophets, no doubt including Isaiah. These men were not ignorant of the writings (or Christ’s words would have found nothing in them). But they did not know how to read them in a Christian manner.

We see something similar in St. John’s gospel. After the footrace between Peter and John to the tomb of Christ (having heard that the body was missing) we read:

Then the other disciple, who reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed; for as yet they did not know the scripture, that he must rise from the dead. Then the disciples went back to their homes. (Jn. 20:8-10)

We’re told that they did not “know” the Scripture “that he must rise from the dead.” The teaching that the Messiah would be put to death and then rise on the third day was not a teaching to be found in the Judaism of the time. No one reading the Scriptures saw this coming! The clearest hint of a three-day burial and resurrection is the foreshadowing in the book of Jonah. Of course, the leap from that account to the historical event of Christ’s resurrection is obscure. Christ Himself, in the gospels, gives reference to it, and doubtless does so again in his conversation with the two disciples on the road. But no one within the Jewish religious world, including the disciples of Jesus, “knew” this until it was explained and taught by Christ after the resurrection.

Of course, after that teaching, the story becomes obvious. The Church later takes it up in its hymns of Holy Saturday:

Jonah was caught but not held fast in the belly of the whale.
He was a sign of Thee who hast suffered and accepted burial.
Coming forth from the beast as from a bridal chamber… (irmos, ode 6).

As various versions of Christianity have become popularized in modern culture, many people think that they “understand” the Scriptures. The error comes when we think that we can understand the Scriptures without any mediation. “I just follow the Bible,” I’ve been told. But none of us does. We necessarily come to our reading with a host of ideas and assumptions. There is already a narrative in our minds before we begin to look for the story.

The Scriptures are only ever read through the eyes of a tradition, even if that tradition claims not to be a tradition but the “Bible only.” Indeed “Bible only” is a tradition with a narrative that is often less than 200 years old. We cannot pretend to understand God’s word when we refuse to understand ourselves, or to examine how understanding itself works.

It is as though the Scriptures were a piano. It has the same 88 keys for everyone. But the music you play is what you see on the sheet music. You do not “play the piano.” You use the piano to play your sheet music. We use the Scriptures to play our tradition. Too many players pretend they have no sheet music.

The place and role of tradition within Orthodoxy has been understood and taught from the beginning. Without apology, the Church refers to the Tradition which it has received, by which and through which we understand the Scriptures and everything else. We do what the two disciples did on the road. We do what Peter and John did. Christ has taught us how to read. Not only do the Orthodox speak honestly about this process, but, in doing so, we are able to speak carefully and wisely, and even critically about that by which we read. When such a mechanism (tradition) is denied, all that can result is a certain uncritical ignorance.

Fr. Thomas Hopko famously said, “You cannot know God. But you have to know Him to know that.” In a private conversation with him, I once said, “The more I write, the less I seem to know.” He smiled and said, “Good! Keep writing! Someday you’ll know nothing. Then you’ll be holy!” Somedays I think I’m holier than others…

So the question becomes, “Then how do we learn the answers so that we can find the answers?” The answer to that is found in the life of the Church. The Ethiopian Eunuch does not disappear from the Scriptures. Philip baptizes him, but he does not then take his Bible and go off to Ethiopia. Indeed, he shows up later in Antioch, during the time when St. Paul was there.

Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a member of the court of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. (Acts 13:1)

Tradition has come down that this Simeon (called Niger – “the Black”) was none other than the Ethiopian in Acts. Only now he is a prophet or teacher. He has been nurtured in the fullness of the Tradition. Later, he will become an Apostle to his homeland. There he is known as “Simeon Bachos.”

We learn how to read the Scriptures just as Simeon did – someone teaches us. That teaching is far more than reading a collection of texts. It is also the formation of the heart. This formation, like that of the Apostles, happens in the context of the life of the Church.

All of this reveals Sola Scriptura to mean little more than a particular Protestant version of sheet music. The Scriptures cannot and do not stand outside the community of interpretation that has received them.

We do well to follow Simeon Bachos into the community of the Apostles. There we can learn to sing the Lord’s song.

About Fr. Stephen Freeman

Fr. Stephen is a priest of the Orthodox Church in America, Pastor Emeritus of St. Anne Orthodox Church in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. He is also author of Everywhere Present and the Glory to God podcast series.



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148 responses to “How to Find the Answers”

  1. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Kristen,

    Hi fellow traveller! Yes, by Jove, I think you’ve got it! 😁

    I’ve been trying to find more words myself to explain the difference in the two mindsets. I think it’s important to state this is not so much a difference between the mindset of every Orthodox person and every Protestant (or non-Orthodox) person as it is the difference between the mindset of true apostolic and biblical traditional Christian faith (which many Protestants may hold in large measure, and which has some analogs also in the mindset of people in other religious traditions that predate modernity–such as Buddhism, animism, and Hinduism) and that of modernity in which we are all today steeped and ruthlessly indoctrinated daily from cradle to grave (unless we have been home schooled all our lives by premodern parents, have thrown out all our electronic devices, do not subscribe to any journal of mass media, don’t go to theater or movies, and have become hermits living in the Styx somewhere!).

    Here are a few of my thoughts based on observation and reflection from my own experience in both contexts (subject to revision as necessary):

    True Christian faith is very down-to-earth and humble and concrete and doesn’t try to know what it really can’t know directly right now from experience or revelation (and God does not typically reveal to me what does not concern me, but only Himself and my own heart and place in His will as I am able to bear this knowledge). For example, I can barely understand the workings of my own heart–so how can I presume to judge such matters for another, nevermind a whole culture or class of people I may know precious little about? There’s a reason Jesus taught in parables using everyday images of the concrete and familiar and why the desert Fathers did the same. Meanwhile, as classic examples of the theology of modernity, there are Thomism and Calvinism!

    Modernity rapidly moves from the concrete data of experience (in a religious context, statements of Scripture, Creeds, and writings of Church Fathers may form part of that data) and works to cobble this all together into abstract conceptual rationalistic principles and systems (in which unconscious and critically unexamined presuppositions of modernity form the framework that bind the data together) and which is then “proved” by syllogisms and propositions of logic divorced from full life context. This becomes the preferred method for judging how the data of our experience fits and should be assigned its place in the now abstract, conceptual, imaginative scheme. This habit of thought continually forces us to adopt a mindset of a sort of semi-omniscient or at least bird’s eye conceptual view of “the world” and to judge what’s going on outside our own experience (and even much within it) from this imaginary vantage point. Except that insofar as that imaginative scheme does not represent reality (and it never fully can, and rarely even comes close in matters of spiritual reality) and I use it to govern my life, life will not work very well for me, and there will be lots of cognitive dissonance as my concrete experience repeatedly does not match what my beliefs lead me to expect. This is often most painfully evident in what I expect from my relationships with others (or a group of others) vs. what actually happens in this arena.

    Attempts to communicate with each other across traditions about all this is complicated by the reality that there will be many Orthodox who have more or less modern mindsets and unquestioned modern assumptions in how they interpret and apply the teachings of their own faith while many Christians of other traditions (or even folks in other religious traditions or no particular tradition at all) may have a genuinely faithful biblical mindset in many areas and applications of their spiritual/relational life.

  2. R. F. Reagan Avatar
    R. F. Reagan

    Reflections:
    Having now reached past four-score in years my read of Old Friend is touching and very true.
    My remembrances go back to my grand mother and great grandmother who both lived into their late 90’s and both of whom were peacefully alive and shared their faith and presence with my brother and me. Their special quality of kindness, patience and humility is something I have come to know and fully appreciate now that I have reached the time of being at a place of sitting on my bench.
    Your wonderful book Everywhere Present has been my daily read and re-read. Our times of facing an evermore isolated sectarian society has ruled my attention and the need to fully understand the need to center ones existence on traditional values and God who is everywhere present.
    I cannot thank you enough for your writings that provide the necessary steadiness in faith and values.
    God bless you Father

  3. Dee of St Hermans Avatar
    Dee of St Hermans

    R. F. I had grandparents who lived into their nineties, also. I treasured the experience I had with them, then and now. Thank you for your comment and reminder.

    I find Fr Stephen’s book helpful in many ways. I encourage everyone who might have an interest in Orthodox devotion, practice and theology, to read it.

  4. Dean Avatar
    Dean

    Dee,
    You are a real encourager, a feminine Barnabas who was Son of Encouragement. (in Acts) Some days that is all one needs to make it through. that smile, touch of the shoulder, note of thanks. May God continue lifting you up so that you can do the same with those around you.

  5. Maria W Avatar
    Maria W

    Bob,
    thank you for addressing me with your concern that you see me raise and question in my prior post.
    I did misinterpret Fr. Freeman posts and he and others have cleared the misunderstanding for me. Of course I still question that Orthodoxy goes back to Christ’s day. I probably would say to Constantin not having read to much about it. The Gospels were many during that time as I understand it, probably much like all the protestant denominations of our time. I do not question that God is not in Orthodoxy, but like all others, Catholics a Protestantism take so many twists and turns thru their political and cultural evolution to have survived alongside Judaism, which has always exerted itself to be the chosen and true Children of God. All kinds of Theologies came to govern ithe various Church bodies from this competitive relationship..
    From my place I can not say this Body is right and another is wrong. Some may not even resemble Christianity at all and still have the Name like Christian Science. They are all offspring’s from perhaps once Orthodoxy. Judaism has the same development. Reformed, Progressive, Conservative, Orthodox etc. Even when I think of America, it’s governing entities are Western and of European origin, its inner life and culture is mixed from all over the world with many taking seats in politics now representing their own ethnicities and resulting in always someone being left out of justice or benefit.
    This should not happen under Christianity. In Christ we are all united no matter what parts of the world we come from culturally. The spirit of Truth and Love as you mentioned fulfills the law. The day’s will come when my children will worship me in Spirit and in Truth, the laws will be written in their hearts etc.. Is this not so written? (me paraphrased) Learn as much as you can, study and let your conscience be your guide. God will lead you. I love many things here I read, and I also question some things that would not be a topic for me. Wishing you the best and sorry I can not be of more help. I could say more, but I lack the words of expression. By the way that Union, or a system to unite with God is also found in Judaism under Kabbalah. Union with the shekinah, also a day to have union with your spouse in Orthodoxy. Think of Christ’s saying: Where two or more are gathered together in my name, there I will be also. It is in communion with like believing spirits in/of him, they will be one. (unadulterated)

  6. Dee of St Hermans Avatar
    Dee of St Hermans

    Bob,
    You haven’t mentioned whether you have gone into an Orthodox Church or have done reading to help with your discernment whether you will come into Orthodoxy. Sometimes watching the talk in the blogs will give you perspectives of lay-people who are in different places in their understandings of where and why they are in or not in Orthodoxy. And it might be difficult at first to even know who is speaking as an Orthodox person or not. I’m a recent convert and to a discerning ear, I will sound less Orthodox than others.

    When I first started to read this blog, I was unnerved also, but I came from the perspective of a person who was an unbeliever becoming a convert to Christianity through Orthodoxy. Among those of us who are Orthodox, no one of us is perfect and all of us are sinners. If you are looking for a perfect church you will not find it here. However, without triumphalism, the Orthodox do have a history dating back to Christ, as does the Roman Catholic Church, also. There are historians who come from many backgrounds who would corroborate this history. But its’ possible also that you might have been exposed to a different historical account.

    If you are interested, I might recommend Dr David Ford’s book, “Wisdom for the Modern Age”, which was recommended to my by my priest in my catechism. Dr Ford is an historian in St Tikon’s (Orthodox) Seminary. Dr Ford received his Master’s of Divinity in the Oral Roberts University. This book starts with the historical account in Acts and then proceeds into the history of the seven councils. I recommend it because he is careful to point out theology similar to Protestant views and how the early councils engaged in discussion about these views and then established what would become part of the Orthodox Tradition.

    I thought I might mention a few things about myself that might help with someone who might be just starting to read this blog. I have been participating in this blog a little over a year now, by the standard of several commentators here, I’m a very recent participant as well as a recent convert. When I first started participating, I presented parts of my story and so some of the people who have been on this blog for sometime, already know this history.

    My family on my dad’s side was Protestant (Quaker) and my mom’s side was an interesting mix of Seminole spirituality with Christianity of some kind. I loved (parents died while I was a teen) and still love my family and they love me. Orthodoxy has become a topic in my family, however, now that I have converted from being a non-believer. I was brought up in a home that was a mixture of Quaker and Seminole belief systems. The Quakers were the only Protestant group that helped my mother’s people when they were persecuted. My mother was severely traumatized in her childhood and then ostracized in the most harsh ways psychologically by Protestant churches when I was a child. As a family we went to several churches in hopes of finding a home. My mother eventually stopped going to church altogether, and by 8 years old, as young as that age is, I was already disgusted with all of Christianity. My dad attempted to encourage me to continue to go to church, but for various reasons there were problems. I had the audacity to challenge the teachers in those churches and didn’t exactly fit, and was happy to stop going too.

    Because of what happened to my mother, I’ve had an abject hatred of all Christianity (and particularly the Protestant version) for more than 40 years. I didn’t seek engagement nor confrontations with Christians since my teens, but incessantly I was approached and then attacked by Christians who considered themselves doing ‘missionary’ work, when I refused their offers to be “saved”. This continues to happen to my loved one, who is himself a non-believer. For reasons of privacy, I will not say where or by whom he is confronted, but it doesn’t help him think of Christianity in a positive way. And I have to work hard to convince him that I do not espouse these same views. I have never gone up to a stranger and attempt to ‘save’ them. This behavior seems like a kindness to some Protestant groups who do this, but it to him, the experience is closer to a form of imperialistic propaganda and intimidation. I become frustrated as it seems to be a life long struggle to deal with this.

    When I decided to become a Christian, through the Orthodox Church, you might have some understanding why I was a little apprehensive at first too. The Hand of God is in all of our lives. And that Hand intends to heal us if we let Him. Unknown to me initially, I entered a parish where almost every person is a convert from some Protestant denomination! Being there has helped to heal my heart.

    With patience, you might find yourself growing more comfortable here and elsewhere that you might go to meet Orthodox people.

    A final recommendation: Fr Stephen, is the priest of this blog and he also has the blessing of the hierarchy of his diocese. This recognition is significant and important. It indicates that what he says reflects the views of the Church more fully than those of us who are not clergy. If in the future you might find yourself at odds with what someone says in the comment section. I encourage you to address Fr Stephen in this blog or in his email, if needed, for clarification. He is a gentle and loving priest, as anyone who has been here for any length of time, will attest.

    Last, one of my favorite orators is Gary Habermas, who describes himself as an Evangelical. And I learned about him through a very positive description of his lectures on this blog.

  7. Dee of St Hermans Avatar
    Dee of St Hermans

    Sorry, I need to correct myself: Dr Fords book title is: “Wisdom for Today from the Early Church”. It is a book that is based on the history course he teaches.

  8. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    The description of you, Dee, as a female Barnabas is apt. I love your comment to Bob! No matter how new you are to Orthodoxy, you will always be an expert on your own experience, and if you have had a real encounter with the Christ of Orthodoxy (and you have), it will show if you will only speak honestly about what you do and do not know. Fr. Stephen models that well for us here.

  9. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Maria, and Bob,
    Lest there be false or confusing information…

    Maria’s suggestion about a large, confusing competitive Christianity with many gospels up until Constantine, or even the notion that the Church somehow changed after Constantine is factually incorrect. There is a new school (cf. Bart Ehrman) of historical interpretation that has been suggesting this – both their methods and their assumptions are false – driven by an agenda to dismiss traditional Christianity. It creates confusion in the minds of many who may not have the means or training to refute them.

    It essentially posits a sort of denominationalized Christianity from the very beginning. It is not true. The history of the denominations is not mysterious. It is quite clear in every case. The various heresies in the early centuries were quite small, frequently isolated to a circle around a single teacher. We say “Gnostic” as if it was one thing, when it was a collective term for some of the most crazy, outlandish ideas ever uttered. But, in no way, a Church or an alternative to the Church. However, the great teachers of the primitive Church, their writings, their prayers, their words, are still with us. We’re not having to guess about these things. And what you find in those writings is of a piece with both what you see, hear and experience in the contemporary Orthodox Church. It is the same Church.

    Orthodoxy was not monolithic, and still isn’t. It is One, while having a great deal of variety and freedom. It is One while not being a monolithic institutional force. It has existed as a communion of Christians, united in the One Cup, One faith, One apostolic ministry, etc. And it has done so since the beginning, and can illustrate that and document that with great detail and accuracy.

    This historical reality does not mean that anyone therefore has to accept Orthodoxy or be Orthodox.

    I understand Maria’s thoughts – but there are inaccuracies. It’s inaccurate, for example, to compare the notion of union in the Kabbalah with theosis in Orthodoxy. I do not mean to be unkind. Maria, you seem to have a good amount of knowledge, but it’s easy to make generalized statements that are not correct when examined.

    What I hear is the pain of the disintegration of Christianity. We all see this. Our families and friends are scattered and the present day is littered with the wrecks of history. It is easy in that to want to say that history is just a mess and it will all work out some day, and the present is too confusing to do more than simply follow what feels right. The wreck of denominationalism is a modern phenomenon – representing something that happened in the Western world following the Reformation. The Reformation turned out to be a practical disaster.

    It is a miracle of God that Orthodox Christianity actually exists – that it has survived. I take that to be significant. I am a convert to Orthodoxy, having abandoned a former life as an Anglican/Episcopal priest. That decision came after years of wrestling, study, self-examination. It was extremely disruptive in my life and relationships. I understand the Orthodox Church to be what it claims to be. It is not, nor has it ever claimed to be perfect. It’s not what it is because it’s more excellent than other things. It is what it is because Christ established it and has preserved it. It is a communion in the truth.

    I don’t want to turn the blog into a place to argue these points. But it is unabashedly an Orthodox blog.

  10. Kristin Avatar
    Kristin

    Karen-

    Thank you for your words in response to mine. Your thoughts are much better and thoroughly expressed.

    As a modern through and through, I struggle with trying to understand the faith in pre enlightenment ways. It became apparent to me that I am trying to understand Orthodoxy by slicing and dicing it into small bits to understand systematically. Ugh. I am almost in a panic to know…it is all so different from what I have previously learned and I want to catch up, so to speak.

    The Orthodox friends I have made in our local parish keep telling me to take it slowly, come and see, experience the Liturgy. I guess I just need to take a deep breath and settle down a little!

  11. Kristin Avatar
    Kristin

    Father Stephen-

    Your last post brings great comfort to me…the present day littered with the wrecks of history…the wrecks of denominationalism…because this is what I see. I am grateful for your honesty regarding the struggles you had when moving from Anglicanism to Orthodoxy. It helps to know that others find this transition of the mind and interior self hard.

    Thank you. Please forgive my words of struggle that come through poorly.

  12. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Thank you for that clarification for Maria and Bob, Father.

  13. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Kristin,
    Indeed. We indeed live in the ruins of what was once a Christian civilization. The Reformation and the aftermath of denominationalism as well as the rise of the nation state have created a terrible cultural landscape for us all. In the middle of that, I can judge no individual Christian for simply doing the best they can and working with what they have. Often, people face huge conflicts within families and such within the midst of the wreckage.

    What is problematic, for me, is when the “doing the best I can,” is turned into model of explanation, as if this is the way its always been, or as if the tragedy of the modern world should somehow be normative. Modernity (particularly the political and cultural elements) wants us to hold our religious beliefs in a light, private manner, not interfering with the larger social and economic agenda. The Church that once excommunicated emperors with effectiveness and preserved learning and culture, is today unable to even persuade her own members of its most basic moral teaching. Christianity is becoming a subset of a larger lifestyle set of choices. In such a manner, people are being shaped into exactly what the culture wants: consumers.

    It is obscene. But the very collapse of Christian civilization is used to relativize all forms of Christianity. Major news networks pump out religious programs that are so filled with factual error and nonsense that are passed off as authoritative. But the same nonsense is espoused from the pulpits of many Churches.

    Orthodoxy is, indeed, a cultural shift. But, like learning a new language and grammar, it takes time. But time actually works. God has preserved the Church, and he will preserve you as well. May He give you grace!

  14. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Maria,

    Since I think you said you like to read, I wanted to let you know about a book I enjoyed which examines the question of how traditional Christianity came to be such a powerful force force in the Western world from such obscure and besieged origins as a sect of first century Judaism. It is called The Rise of Christianity. It is from the perspective of an academic whose area of expertise is not history or theology, but rather as a professor of sociology, which was part of what made the book interesting to me (as I did my B.A. in Psychology). The author, Rodney Stark, examines all the social dynamics of life and conditions in the Roman Empire at that time as well as the actual beliefs and practices of the various pagan cults among which Jesus, the Jews, the Apostles and their immediate successors and flocks found themselves. Though Stark is an academic, the book is written for a popular audience and quite easy to follow, so I don’t believe the fact that English is not your first language would present a problem for your being able to follow and appreciate its thesis. As a professional academic working in his field, Stark has to pay careful attention to the primary sources and their details to support his thesis. Aside from reading the Gospels in the New Testament and comparing them with some of the various early Gnostic “gospels”, Stark’s is a good type of to book to read to expose the deceitfulness of the recent arguments of some modern academics that in the early period there were many competing “Christianities”. Academics like Bart Ehrman and Elaine Pagels both are driven by an agenda much less disinterested (objective) than Stark in their study of Christianity’s early development (in that these both have a significant axe to grind with modern Evangelicalism, which is the faith in which they were both raised). The strangeness of those various Gnostic cults to the various traditions of Protestant faith in which you and I were first solidly grounded and nurtured in the great love and truth of Christ would be readily apparent! Mainline Protestantism and even much of Evangelical Protestantism in their beginnings, unlike the Gnostic cults, are all solidly rooted in the core teachings about Christ of the apostolic writings in the NT.

  15. Kristin Avatar
    Kristin

    Father Stephen–

    The obscenity of turning Christians into consumers–YES! I get that. That’s a fear I have of myself as I leave one church to look into another. It causes introspection on this very thing.

    In your last paragraph you mention that a cultural shift takes time. My pile of books is growing…Fr Schmemann, Kalistos Ware, Frederica Matthewes Green, your book. I can only read a bit at a time. Today I set the pile aside for a little and instead
    read Gerard Manley Hopkins’ poems, most particularly ‘As kingfishers catch fire, dragonflies draw flame…’ He is so good at making me stop and consider what has been before me all along, that God infused His creation with grace at every point, in every moment.

    Thank you again!

  16. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Kristin,
    I love Hopkins! One very noted monk used to encourage people considering the Church to read novels more than heavy theology. He recommended Dostoevsky (of course) as well as Dickens. I would add Hopkins poetry to the list. The heart’s journey towards God should be marked by beauty if at all possible.

    I’m sure others might have suggestions as well. But it’s absolutely possible to get “too much theology” – as in “too much rich food.”

    I read theology in small snatches. History in a little larger pieces. Novels and good writing always.

  17. David Foutch Avatar
    David Foutch

    I have been trying to figure out what I could possibly add to this that would be meaningful and I’ve reduced it to terms that I would speak to my son on my death bed.

    1) The fullness of the Christian faith is in the Orthodox church. How do I know that? There many reasons. But, the most important of them has become a) I now know what it means to worship, b) I now know what it means to pray, and c) I now know the work God began in me when I was a child would have come to fruition in the Orthodox church.

    2) For all things outside the church, I COMPLETELY trust the mercy and love of God. I don’t worry about people’s “salvation” because if I did what would that say about the kind of person I believe God is? Which, by the way, is a very Orthodox thing to say.

    I don’t know that says as much as I think it says, but it is what I would say.

  18. Kristin Avatar
    Kristin

    Fr Stephen-

    I’m so glad you mentioned Dostoevsky. I first read Brothers Karamaxov the summer after I graduated college and credit him with turning me into a reader.

    I read Crime and Ounishment last year, and Anna Karrenina by Tolstoy last summer for the first time, prior to setting foot in an Orthodix church. I was enamoured by the scenes of the deathbed, Levin’s confession, marriage, and his intense faith crisis at the end. The way the priest approached his doubt was the kindest, calmest thing ever. My doubts have always been met with fear and questions of my salvation by protestants. Reading Anna showed me an entirely different way.

    Brothers K is on my pile again so I can read the Pevear/Volokhonsky translation. I will definitely take your advice! Happy to do so!

  19. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Hi Kristin!

    What you describe doing and experiencing as you are exploring Orthodoxy sounds very familiar. Yes, I agree with your Orthodox friends–don’t sweat it. It takes time and experience to assimilate to a completely new mindset. Sometimes especially we from Evangelical (and Reformed) backgrounds can feel a sense of panic as it starts to sink in as to how alien to the world of the New Testament and early Christians some of our heterodox teachings and practices have been –particularly our ecclesiology and non-sacramental understanding of Baptism and Eucharist. What fuels that panic, too, is the way we have always been taught to understood salvation and the threat of hell, as I think you mentioned earlier in the thread is so central in Evangelicalism.. Several years ago when this subject was touched on in a comments thread here, and I was still pretty newly Orthodox, Fr. Stephen wrote to an inquirer struggling with this very thing words to the effect, “God is not in a hurry, and we don’t need to be either.” I found that really helped me to embrace the breathing room God gives us as we grow. As he also wrote earlier in this thread about our non-Orthodox loved ones, it is true for us too as we become inquirers, catechumens and new members of the Orthodox Church–we can be confident in God’s provision for this because He is far more concerned with our salvation than we are. As Paul writes in Romans 8, “If God is for us, who can be against us?”

  20. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    David, I really appreciate your “deathbed” summary. I quite agree.

  21. Maria W Avatar
    Maria W

    Karen,
    thank you for your advise about the Book, My son has the book and I think he came from it with a lot of objections and Anti-Christian. Not sure why. I will ask him for it and see how I will understand it. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

    Fr. Stephan Freeman,
    it is difficult to take anyone’s word for true these days. Everyone including Churches have an agenda. Since Orthodoxy mostly stayed rooted in the far East, I don’t recall seeing or hearing of any Orthodox churches playing a role in peoples life’s in Western Europe, it is difficult for me to fall head over heel’s and profess Orthodoxy to be the true and fullness of the Church. I am happy for everyone who thinks and believes to have found this in their live. I am sure at one time you felt that about Episcopalism .
    Knowing ones past is important and knowing the History of Orthodoxy is important to me, as it appears for me now as a place of worship here in the US. But growing up with Catholics, Protestants and Baptists I’ve learned that Christianity’s History is not taught to the Disciples, but only to the so called elite who will some day rule the next Generation in matters of Truth and Belief. The same may be true in Orthodoxy. I don’t like finding out later there was never an honest discourse of who and what Christianity or Orthodoxy is, was and may become, or better said how it evolved, apart from who Jesus was and endlessly studied and talked about.. Because Church live resembles nothing of what I see in the Gospels Church-life , as their understanding was rooted in Judaism. I don’t doubt the sincerity of the early formed Orthodox Church already separated from the Jews, and I know the intellect, wisdom and many debates that was put into it to make it a cohesive body. Judaism, after the fall of the Temple had to do the same thing and they did stand as rivals against Christianity taught by hundreds of Rabbis in this and other countries.
    It is sad that so much trust has been lost in or for the Church, but people still believe and have no choice, but commune with what is available in their community no matter how much is being manipulated, truth, distorted and agenda driven messages.
    I for one could not stand in one spot for 2 hours, not sure if you even give a message during that time, I think someone said no sermon, I heard I would not be able to take part of communion as though I have to join the club first, and my personal faith and baptism would be invalid. It would be an offense or insult to the many years I lived. Icons, I could not worship, communion, if I was a member I could not take believing it is/was the actual body and flesh of Christ, unmeasurably repulsive to me, as I would think of cannibalism, or the superstition of eating an animal to gain their powers. I love Christ I don’t want to consume him barbarically. I’d rather would die for him because I love him. This Idea is unimaginable to me and don’t understand how and who came up with it in the early formation of the Church. Do this in remembrance of me, yes always, and I will honor and never forget . In the end, just from the little I know I don’t think I can be or become Orthodox, just like I can not become a Jewish convert and deny Christ. I love and try to live my life with a few people that are trust worthy. I don’t think the Churches have done a good job anywhere to instill and promote trust. By their fruits ….. Though I do not cower from my life’s mission, and sorry if I was being too honest. I took nothing the wrong way you said in your post to me and I appreciate and respect how you see it from your place and thank you for it., Sincerely and honorably, that is all I/we can hoped for.

  22. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Maria W, the life of the Orthodox Church in the west is hidden but not insignificant. You can find it in the saints and elders.

    St. Innocent of Alaska, St. Herman of Alaska, St Raphael of Brooklyn, St. John of San Francisco, Matushka Olga of Alaska, St Silouan, Elder Sophrony, Archimandrite Zacharias and there are many more some still deeply hidden.

    The 20th century saints of Greece are not of the far East. Our brother Dino who comments here knew several personally and was taught by them.

    Each of them deals with the modern mind and is familiar with the ruins in which we live.

  23. David Foutch Avatar
    David Foutch

    Maria,
    Do you regard yourself as having “found” God or “searching”?

  24. Kristin Avatar
    Kristin

    Karen-

    I really appreciate how you ordered your thoughts about the difficulties I am experiencing in my inquiry into Orthodoxy. You hit the nail on the head, several times!

    I have such a feeling of relief after reading the comments. I’ve been sharing them with friends as much as I can.

    We had the priest and his family of the parish we’ve been visiting over for dinner Friday night. What a wonderful experience. They were so kind, listen with care to our church troubles from the past, and affirmed that we should relax. In fact, after that my husband and I decided to actually say that this parish is where we now attend. So now we can settle into church life, continue to learn, and not worry about what God has in His care, which includes us and our desire to know and honor Him. We are quite happy about this.

    Thank you everyone. You both challenge and encourage me.

  25. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    I for one could not stand in one spot for 2 hours, not sure if you even give a message during that time, I think someone said no sermon, I heard I would not be able to take part of communion as though I have to join the club first, and my personal faith and baptism would be invalid. It would be an offense or insult to the many years I lived. Icons, I could not worship, communion, if I was a member I could not take believing it is/was the actual body and flesh of Christ, unmeasurably repulsive to me, as I would think of cannibalism, or the superstition of eating an animal to gain their powers. I love Christ I don’t want to consume him barbarically. I’d rather would die for him because I love him. This Idea is unimaginable to me and don’t understand how and who came up with it in the early formation of the Church. Do this in remembrance of me, yes always, and I will honor and never forget . In the end, just from the little I know I don’t think I can be or become Orthodox, just like I can not become a Jewish convert and deny Christ. I love and try to live my life with a few people that are trust worthy. I don’t think the Churches have done a good job anywhere to instill and promote trust.

    Maria, forgive me for my confusion concerning your comments. Is your concern centered around a lack of trust in the Orthodox Church or in the teachings you have noted? Or both? The ideas seem to be running together in your post and I am not clear on if/how they intersect. Blessings to you, my friend.

  26. Maria W Avatar
    Maria W

    David Foutch,
    Knowers of the heart “in community”.

  27. Maria W Avatar
    Maria W

    Bryon,
    forgive me if I cause confusion, it is so hard to communicate some things which perhaps I can not convey, or be reduced into a small paragraph. Too many years unable to speak. I apologize.. Since my entry into the US many, many years ago I’ve been told I needed to change and become American. I was very young, grew up with Nuns, Protestant sisters and Baptists. They were all that filled me as a young person, their teaching was all I possessed that was of value me. And from the moment I entered this country I was asked to change, from my dress to my way of life. Some things did not matter, but other things mattered that were live and death to me. And as I mentioned before in another post, my faith was the greatest asset I had, and it carried me thru times I would otherwise not have survived. Basically ….don’t touch my faith. I’ve been ridiculed, made fun off, it broke relationships, because I can not become partner in crime (matter of speech) , I’ve been called unsaved not Christian, viewed as stupid and dumb and I did not know how to defend myself. My walled off Church with Nuns, Protestants and tight Baptist Church did not teach me the real world and life outside of their walls.
    Come Home my Lord says: and I can’t find it, because it is in a community where people cared for one another. I remember a time when life was whole and wholesome, we did not consume each other. It all stood in balance.
    Change is hard, some things are for life, and God is one of them. Maybe it is OK being a little of this, and a little of that, taking nothing away from him who has made us all. He is still all in all in my heart.

  28. Kristin Avatar
    Kristin

    Maria-

    I’ve been listening to your conversation from the sidelines. My heart aches for you, for the depth of longing you have been in for such a long time…for community, understanding, belonging, safety to be who you are, with your own thoughts, beliefs, loves.

    I truly hope you find these things. I fear this life will not have them, only glimpses of the true, the good, and the beautiful. I struggle, too. I don’t know what belonging feels like. So I try to remember that it’s ok, that one day I will completely belong, but I will have to wait until this life is over.

    There are safe people out there who will enjoy you for who you are and find your story remarkable. They may differ in some beliefs, but can accept you anyway. I hope you can find them. I am so glad you have tried to express what might seem inexpressible.

    May God bless you this day.

  29. Alan Avatar
    Alan

    Father,

    You’ve often recommended reading Dostoevsky. I’ve asked around and most have told me that he’s pretty deep and his books are tough sledding. I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed either, so I’ve been a bit hesitant to jump in. What book of his do you recommend starting with?

  30. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Alan,
    19th century Russian literature can be a bit of a slog…many characters…lot’s of dialog…but I enjoy it. There are treasures within it. By far, I recommend reading Crime and Punishment first. I think it’s the easiest for Americans – there’s a single main character and the story is pretty straightforward. the translations by Pevear and Volokhonsky is, by far, the best.

  31. Dee of St Hermans Avatar
    Dee of St Hermans

    Thank you Kristin and Fr Stephen for your mentioning Gerard Manley Hopkins. Wow how did I miss this? Beautiful poetry.

  32. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    Come Home my Lord says: and I can’t find it, because it is in a community where people cared for one another. I remember a time when life was whole and wholesome, we did not consume each other.

    A community in His love is certainly and idea. I have not had serious issues with Orthodox theology because I have seen the limits of my own and I am fortunate to have found the (very loving) parish I am now a part of. One person whom I met there said one thing to me over and over during my time as a catechumen, “Orthodoxy is hard.” And I have found it very true, but well worth the effort. Please don’t give up on the Church. We often do a very poor job of being the Body of Christ but that’s us, not you. Forgive us with a hug! May you be blessed in your journey.

  33. Alan Avatar
    Alan

    Thank you Father!!

  34. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Community is tough in this life, I find that I do not fit anywhere. The only fit I have is with my wife who seems to fit pretty near anywhere. But she is a beloved of God who in the normal course of things should have been dead about 5 times over.

    Community rarely seems to form around people’s strength but rather around common suffering and the willingness to share it.

    I had a moment of community at the grocery store the other day. I have a bad back and it is painful to walk. There was a black woman who was also struggling. We shared a moment of real humanness on our way into the store because we both felt pain and did not hide it from each other. No fear and no pity either.

    It is much more difficult in a parish for me to have that same level of honesty. I approach it sometimes in confession but rarely anywhere else. After all I have an image to maintain. “Fear is the soul killer, the little death that leads to total annihilation.” Frank Herbert in Dune.

    Lord help us all to be open to Your grace in and through others and to recognize that you are the Incarnate Lord risen from the dead.

  35. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Amen to Michael’s prayer.

    Yes, being in community is never going to be perfect in this life, but there is something to be said for trying with the help of God’s grace to be the person we hope to find there. It’s just a fact of human psychology that if we approach others with a fearful, guarded mindset, we put them on alert that we ourselves are not a safe person to be around, and we reduce the chances of a mutually encouraging exchange. It becomes a case of “self-fulfilling prophesy.” It takes a lot of courage to work through this, especially where there is a history of the experience of a lot of rejection. My heart always goes out to the one I sense is struggling with this, and I am always working to overcome my own social anxieties and reach out to those I don’t yet know (sometimes successfully, some days not so much). When I have managed to meet someone new, who at first was a bit intimidating, I have rarely, if ever, found the “bogeyman” of my fearful imagination existed! (There are a very few jerks out there that are best avoided, but they are in the minority.)

  36. Dean Avatar
    Dean

    It’s so good having this virtual community. I have only met one of you in person…a real blessing, Mary. I visit an unbelieving neighbor. He mainly complains, is very negative. But I listen. Yesterday I was with my brother in law as he got chemo. He is very negative, has made life very hard for 57 years on my lovely sister. I listen. Yet even in those surroundings one can be uplifted. One man was there next to us, alone, receiving chemo. I believe American Indian. What a beautiful smile…as pleasant as he could be. It is strange how you can feel love toward a stranger. I did toward him. Life can be hard, terribly hard. But our Lord sends moments of refreshing, often through strangers we meet. Sweet nectar of life….I see signs from expensive cars, “Life is good!” How much more genuine to silently hear, life is good, from a dear one suffering.

  37. Dee of St Hermans Avatar
    Dee of St Hermans

    Your inspired words are so beautiful, Dean. Thank you.

  38. Kristin Avatar
    Kristin

    Yes, Dean, such beautiful thoughts!

  39. Maria W Avatar
    Maria W

    Michael Bauman, “Fear is the soul killer, the little death that leads to total annihilation.” Frank Herbert in Dune.
    This is so true and sometimes this is what I am fighting for with others “NOT to be afraid”. People are being afraid of the “Stranger” the person they do not know, or a person who is unwilling to reveal himself, who he/she is, out of fear they may not be liked or loved. What is worse though is what the fearful person leaves behind in others in/thru the engagement. The feeling what did I say or do for this person to turn his/her back on me.? This never knowing, only to come to the understanding at some point like my friend Bryon wrote in a previous post. It is not you, it is us. There was an honesty and I would have loved to return his hug, because then there is hope for “what can we do better to welcome people”, like being more genuine, a real human being,” which Jesus was”. He never asked us to do anything that was hard, he never asked us to be God, he asked us to love one another, we all suffer and hurt, life is unjust at times, unfair and so on, and why is it so hard to be real with one another as people. Because our values are misplaced. We have no time, we must accept the notions that life is not fair, or it all our fault, that we must know a lot to be powerful, after all knowledge is power, we must be perfect in this or that, have money, a big house to be something and be accepted in society, we must have a good image, and an image it is. It is not You.
    Like you Michael, I see peoples smiles, a moment of an instant of human-kindness and being real, no image or pretense. And I think this pretense is what injures us so subtly, because in it no connection can be found.
    Thank you for your post, and for being real about it. The same for Bryon, love your honesty. 🙂

  40. mary benton Avatar
    mary benton

    This is an amazing and overwhelming discussion – given that I just jumped into it tonight. I could not read every comment from beginning to end but appreciate the deep love and honesty and questioning and responding that surfaced throughout. Thank you, Fr. Stephen, for the article and for being so generous with your forum.

    I have a few thoughts that likely will add little to the conversation but I offer them anyway. Never stopped me in the past. 🙂

    Some people, though relatively few, can play the piano (or other instruments, sometimes all instruments) without any formal training or ability to read music. They hear music, recall it perfectly and sit down and play it. Some of these hear music in their minds without effort and write it down (or have someone else write it if they do not know how to). Some of these people understand music in a cosmic, mathematical manner that so far exceeds my comprehension that I have no idea if what they say is true.

    Then there are the rest of us who range from tone-deaf to those who become pretty good pianists with hard work and practice. We are the people who need sheet music. And how well we can read it and play from it depends on an interaction of what/how we have been taught and how hard we work at it.

    Now I realize, Fr. Stephen, that your analogy was meant to be only an analogy. But what if we try to understand faith from this perspective on music, i.e. taking your analogy backward?

    From this perspective, we might recognize that there are some people, probably relatively few, who are able to know God profoundly regardless of what “religion” they find themselves in (if they even find themselves in any religion at all). Somehow they simply know because it has been given to them to know.

    Then there are the rest of us. We need both to be taught and to work hard to come to know God. And we still find ourselves on a continuum, ranging from those who seem unable to recognize God at all (the “tone deaf”) to those who stand on the brink of theosis. The latter, those on the “very-close-to-God end of the continuum” are more likely to be in or find their way to the Church – from which comes the instruction of the Holy Spirit in Scripture, sacraments and tradition – both because these souls are formed by good teaching and have been given a longing for it.

    However, simply being part of “the Church” does not automatically bring individuals close to God because, sadly, some do not work hard while others are “tone-deaf” (are weighed down by any of the many inner obstacles that afflict humans).

    When it comes to the faith of others, we naturally have little if any understanding of who is inherently gifted, who works hard with good teaching, who works little and who is burdened with hidden obstacles to knowing God. To even understand ourselves in this regard is challenge enough for a lifetime.

    What is most important is that God’s love for everyone, regardless of their “musical” ability, is limitless and unconditional. There is no one that Christ did not die for. He alone understands what abilities and burdens, good and bad teachers, each person has had to contend with – and He has a plan to draw every person to Himself – if only they say “yes”… Not just the word “yes” but a “yes” with their lives in whatever fashion they can say it. He does not expect the tone-deaf to write symphonies – but He still wants their hearts.

    This is not a “modern” message, implying that it doesn’t matter what we believe. It is the Gospel – a Gospel in which the broken, the sinners, the prostitutes are welcome with their sincere but feeble “yes”.

    (BTW, this is a long and rambling way of saying I’m agreeing with you, Fr. Stephen, and thanking you. A great gift are your words that do not judge but instead refocus each of us on working on our own salvation.)

  41. mary benton Avatar
    mary benton

    A couple of other details.

    Actually Catholics do believe in theosis (referring to a comment quite a ways back), though this term may be less commonly used in the west. There also may be differences in understanding between the Orthodox and Catholic on this, I do not know. But I have no interest in trying to parse out differences. Union with God is what we were made for – trying to define it is beyond us all.

    Also, Fr. Stephen, I was curious about your mention of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts as being the same person as “Simeon who was called Niger”. I have never heard this and haven’t found it referenced in the few sources I have to consult. A minor point, but I am interested in the sources for the connection. (I’m not debating it – I don’t know enough to do that.) Wondering if this aspect of “Tradition” is considered on par with Scriptural accounts or is it more speculation?

  42. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Mary, such traditions are not treated as on a par with Scripture. They are, however, far more reliable than many people think in my opinion.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_eunuch

  43. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Mary,
    I think you pushed the limits of my metaphor beyond the bounds, perhaps revealing just how weak metaphors are.

    If we were to use the analogy of music to God, then I think we have to let Him provide the song, rather than ourselves. All of us, even the tone deaf, are “being sung.” There are, however, so many who want to sing their own song and distort the true one.

    It was not uncommon for the fathers to use the image of a flute (we’re the flute) and the Holy Spirit is the wind, etc.

  44. mary benton Avatar
    mary benton

    Fr. Stephen – sorry if I pushed too far. I was able to relate to the metaphor in this way but perhaps it makes no sense to anyone else.

    It had struck me that some people come into the world with exceptional spiritual giftedness while others, due to genetic, environmental and unknown factors, may have immense struggles in trying to know God. Those who find themselves in this latter group need not be disheartened, however, for God’s love for them is as endless as it is for those who are saintly even as children. His plan is for all of us (the Plan, as well individual plans that move us along the way). He wants none to be lost. And, while all of us must work at our salvation, He does not expect from everyone the same outward fruits from their labors.

    Some will orchestrate symphonies while others will play the tin whistle. Some will play for the Cleveland Orchestra (rated 7th best in the world, BTW) while others will play in their garage with a small group of friends. The most important thing is that God provides the music that flows through us all. (There I go stretching your analogy again…)

  45. Dee of St Hermans Avatar
    Dee of St Hermans

    Amazing, how analogies help us to understand and if taken too far might distort the intended meaning. Teaching and researching chemistry contantly involves the use of models and metaphors. Sometimes if taken too literally, they might derail the science or understanding. When that happened, experiments could help rectify– but only if the methods were mutually accepted.

  46. Dee of St Hermans Avatar
    Dee of St Hermans

    I forgot to mention that I really like the flute metaphor! Amazingly helpful in my readings of Orthodox theology at this time.

  47. Alan Avatar
    Alan

    Great Post. Thank you Father.

  48. Cindy Torrince Avatar
    Cindy Torrince

    Why is it so hard to find answers to my questions on Orthodox?

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