Good News – Your Debt is Being Cancelled

BrokenChains-500x285Recent conversations on the blog have bounced around the imagery of debt in the Scriptures. Contemporary Protestant thought often likes to express the notion of a “sin debt.” The idea runs that God’s righteousness and justice have proper demands. When we fail to keep the commandments, we create a debt for which God’s justice demands payment. Christ’s innocent self-offering on the Cross is seen as the payment for that debt. This imagery is absent from Orthodox thought. Indeed, I believe it is absent from the New Testament itself. It is, instead, an image that was created apart from the Scriptures themselves (originating as an atonement theory), and has been read back into the Scriptures, repeatedly misconstruing the actual meaning of the text. This reading has been a dominant part of modern Evangelical thought, and has been mined and minted so thoroughly, that many within the Evangelical mainstream treat it as a touchstone of Christian orthodoxy. It is not only not Orthodox, it is not orthodox. It is a false teaching.

First, a few thoughts about atonement theory.

The atonement treats the question of how it is that Christ’s death and resurrection are “for us.” What is it about them that frees us from sin and reconciles us? The word “atonement,” is uniquely English. It is a hybrid word, consisting of  three words: “at-one-ment.” It is that understanding of what it is that makes us one with God. But, as a hybrid English word, it is not found in the Scriptures. The closest thing in the Scriptures might be the word “reconciliation” (καταλλαγή). One of my favorite renderings of “atonement” is the German “wiedergutmachung,” literally, “making good again.”

Atonement theory refers to the story and explanation of how it is we are reconciled. It necessarily includes a theory of the nature of sin and human responsibility. It also includes a theory of why God would want to reconcile us in the first place. In short, atonement theory is the story of what is wrong with us and how God fixes it. For a newcomer to this conversation, it might seem surprising that the answer to such a basic thing isn’t obvious or clearly covered somewhere in the Scriptures. The truth is that the entire New Testament could be seen as an extended presentation of atonement theory. However, a short, neat description is simply nowhere to be found. Instead, there are multiple references, describing or inferring a “back-story,” that more-or-less form a theory of the atonement.

The Eastern Church, which means the Church whose history was rooted in the early Roman and later Byzantine Empire, is often described as having never developed an atonement theory. Of course, the notion that the Church of the first thousand years of Christian history had no explanation how what was wrong with human beings and how God fixes it, is patently absurd. There were a number of images used in the writings of the fathers and the liturgical prayers of the Church. But no one of them came to utterly dominate. What was not present, however, was the notion that sin creates a debt with God or His justice that must be paid.

The word “debt” and its cognates (“debtor,” “owe,” etc.) is actually quite rare in the New Testament. It occurs in Matthew’s version of the Lord’s Prayer (“forgive us our debts”). It occurs in the parables where a servant’s debt is forgiven by his master. It also occurs (depending on the translation you use) in Galatians 5:3 (“For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law” King James Version). However that verse is far more accurately and euphoniously translated: “For I testify again that every man who is circumcised is bound to do the whole law.” The concept of debt in that context would be extremely abstruse.

That’s it.

What is clear is that this almost no mention at all. The parable regarding debt is a classic use of the rabbinical kal vachomer (וחומר קל) argument, which is called the “light to heavy.” Its logic is simple: If this is the case, then how much more should this be the case. In the parables, a man is released from a massive debt, but refuses to let a tiny debt to someone else go. When his master, who had released him from the massive debt heard this, he was angry and had him thrown into prison. It is a straightforward teaching. If someone does you an enormous kindness, you should certainly not refuse to extend small kindnesses to others. The parable in no way establishes some primary story for interpreting the whole of the gospel message. To claim that it does is absurd, and an abuse of the parable.

If you were looking for images that shape a mature, overarching account of how God reconciles us to Himself, you would certainly look for something that has a presence beyond an unrelated parable and a badly translated verse. The historical fact is that the God-as-Creditor (penal substitution) theory of the atonement is not Scriptural. It was a theory put forward first (more or less) by Anselm around the year 1000. His version used Medieval feudalism as its basis (without any pretense of being a Scriptural model). Anselm said that God’s honor had been offended and had to be compensated. In the feudal world of Europe where honor was the basis of government and war, it was, perhaps, an unsurprising fiction. Anselm’s fiction, however, was gradually changed into the penal/substitution model of the Reformation, in which mankind’s sin creates an infinite debt to the righteous judgment of God, deserving of wrath. Christ bears the wrath of the Father as payment of the debt we owe. However, this is a development of Anselm’s theory, not a reading of Scripture. Worth noting that at the same time holding debt was being elevated by Protestant teaching to a Divine attribute, Protestant teachers and rulers were abolishing the condemnation on usury that had been in place since the earliest Christian tradition. Debt is Divine and good business!

There are a couple of concepts involving debt-like matters that are worth examining. In one, Christ says “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. (Joh 8:34). This concept or image is not isolated. We are not made debtors to God, but we are enslaved by Sin. It is common in the New Testament to see Sin treated as though it were a person. Sometimes it almost seems to be synonymous with the devil himself, though we should not draw that conclusion. But it is seen as an adversary, one who enslaves us. Many people, influenced by the moralistic teachings of contemporary Christianity, are puzzled by this description of sin. For them, sin is simply something we have done wrong. They do not see it as somehow separate from themselves. But it is (cf. “You Are Not Your Sin”). St. Paul distinguishes between himself and “sin that dwells in me” (Ro. 7).

This bondage or slavery to sin is also similar to language applied to the devil:

Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same nature, that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage. (Heb 2:14-15 RSV)

St. Paul elsewhere says that the “wages of sin is death.”  St. Paul places sin, death, the devil, all in this category of that which holds us in bondage.

This collection, sin, death, the devil, is not the imagery of debt, per se. Rather, it is the category to which debt itself belongs. Debt is something that binds us. Debt is an evil thing that God sets clear boundaries around lest it destroy His people. And, as we shall see, it is something He abolishes (He doesn’t pay it. He abolishes it!).

There are other passages that use this imagery of bondage:

While we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive (Rom 7:5-6).

The law is something from which we are discharged. And we accomplish this by dying. We die with Christ. St. Paul says, “He who has died is free from sin” (Ro. 6:7). St. Paul describes Christ as leading “captivity captive” (Eph. 4:8). That which held us prisoner is itself led as a prisoner. Sin, death and the devil and debt are trampled down by the death and resurrection of Christ. Christ does not set us free by paying our debt. He sets us free by dying and trampling down death. And this becomes effective in our lives because we, too, die, being “buried with Him in Baptism” (Romans 6:3). To bring the notion of a debt payment into the conversation of being Baptized into Christ’s death is just weird. It doesn’t fit or make sense in any manner.

Some might struggle with the personification of sin, of our being held in bondage by it and sin being destroyed, etc. But that is the consistent imagery of Scripture. Debt can be placed into that category and treated in that manner. But there is simply no Biblical imagery of God paying our debts.

In the Old Testament, the system of the Sabbath (Sabbath Day, Sabbath Year, Jubilee Year) was a system of abolishing debt. You could hold a slave for only seven years, then he had to be set free. No one paid for them. Land could be bought from someone, but all land and debts had to be cancelled in the 50th (Jubilee) year, at the end of seven cycles of Sabbath years.

On the Sabbath day in Nazareth, Christ takes up the scroll of Isaiah in the synagogue and reads this:

“The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD.” (Luke 4:18-19)

The “acceptable year of the Lord,” is a reference to the Jubilee year, which Isaiah raises to a cosmic level. There will come the “Day of the Lord,” and all debts will be cancelled. The captives will be set free. This is the heart (in its full cosmic sense) of what Christ means when he preaches, “Repent! For the Kingdom of God is at hand.” The coming of the Kingdom is nothing less than the Day of the Lord. Interestingly, the Jubilee year begins with the sound of a trumpet. It is that very thing that signals Christ’s triumphant return, “Then the trump will sound…”

But nowhere in this rich Biblical imagery, is there a notion of anything being paid. Christ doesn’t pay our debt, He destroys it! This is deeply important. The penal substitution theory runs the risk of treating the holding of debt to be a good thing, reducing debtors to the cast of evil doers. This is utterly contrary to Scripture where the opposite is true.

Look at this one last example of the destruction of a “debt.” Interestingly, it is a passage frequently abused in the penal substitution theory:

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. (Col 2:13-15)

I have heard this passage interpreted as Christ writing “Paid!” on our bill of debt and nailing it to the Cross. But, again, this is simply an abuse. The “handwriting” is the requirements of the Law, which have begun to work death in us because of Sin. Here, Christ nails them to the Cross. The handwriting isn’t a debt being paid. It is a bondage being “disarmed” like the principalities and powers over which He triumphed. Perhaps the most tragic aspect of the penal substitutionary theory is its habit of misusing one thing and ignoring another. This passage in Colossians is clearly about one thing, the destruction of what holds us in bondage.

Debt belongs to the realm of death, sin, slavery and bondage. Christ has come to destroy all of these things and lead us into His kingdom. You are free.

Glory forever!

About Fr. Stephen Freeman

Fr. Stephen is a priest of the Orthodox Church in America, Pastor Emeritus of St. Anne Orthodox Church in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. He is also author of Everywhere Present and the Glory to God podcast series.



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140 responses to “Good News – Your Debt is Being Cancelled”

  1. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    I would be interested in knowing what the Greek root for the word translated as “fear” happens to be. Even a very brief entomological search on my part indicated there might be a depth that is missing in English, but I am ignorant of Greek.

  2. Pete Avatar
    Pete

    Dear Renewal,

    To echo Father’s cogent comments, my background was protestant as well. I had the good fortune of meeting an Orthodox priest while at University. That story alone was quite serendipitous. After two 2 ½ conversations I knew I had to take a real look at this, but to do it in a way, that wasn’t drawing distinctions or comparisons to what I knew as a Protestant (so long as nothing scandalous was presented and there certainly was not) In other words, Orthodoxy stand on its own terms or stands, not at all.

    With the historicity of the Church clearly on its side, I also encountered a very, very sober minded faith. The claims of the Church (once I got my head around this) became easier and easier to comprehend. For example, one simple thing was that St. Paul was writing to the Churches. That’s huge.

    They were Already in existence. I always thought the Bible was the center of truth. The Church clearly existed before the New Testament. That means something, but what? The apex of Truth is the Eucharistic community that Christ established.

    This apex of truth is what the gates of hell do not prevail this against. Matthew 16:18 (this implies that we are the object in all of this; i.e., the object of love)

    18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    It is the Church (with its Eucharistic center {Christ himself} that he has established. We are alive in this way now. The framework for this, I Timothy 3:15 is intentionally distinct and precise:

    15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the Pillar and Ground of the Truth.

    We are linked to the Logos in the Eucharistic center (Christ – The very word of God {John 1:1 & John 1:14}) – we become the Word in this way! 2 Cor 3:2-3. We certainly aren’t the Bible.

    2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
    3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

    One starts to see in all of this the intimacy we are called to; whereby we cry abba, Father. Romans 8:15

    We are the object of his love. We has united himself to us.

    The intimacy is striking.

    Truly the Church is Christ’s bride!

    This is love

  3. Renewal Avatar
    Renewal

    Father Stephen,

    Thank you very much indeed. Very helpful, particularly in your use of the word ‘reboot’. This seems a wise process to begin to start over.

    Pete,

    I hadn’t realised that, thank you so much for your comment.

  4. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    Michael,
    I don’t think there’s much to be gleaned from the etymological examination of the Greek word for fear:’φόβος’ is supposed to originally come from the Homeric expression for being motivated towards escape (‘φυγή ‘) from a threat. But it obviously has come to encompass both ‘bad’ fear, worries, panic, as well as awe and watchfulness.

  5. Hugh McCann Avatar
    Hugh McCann

    Dino, Michael, et. al.,

    True enough, etymology is of minimal help.

    More important by are the contexts in which words are found and how they’re thus used.

    How a word is used by the earl church is helpful, but the Scriptures are our ultimate authority, and I believe I have some “fatherly” corroboration on that.

  6. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Hugh, Nonsense. You can’t quote the fathers to support anything of Protestant takes on Scripture. The Fathers lived in the Church and wrote and spoke as Orthodox Christians. Pulling quotes from them to support what are essentially heretical views on the Scriptures is illegitimate. You cannot quote the Fathers if you are not of the Fathers. Reformed thought repudiates pretty much everything the Fathers hold. They are not your Fathers until the Church is your Mother.

  7. Hugh McCann Avatar
    Hugh McCann

    Father Stephen,

    A blessed Pascha to you & yours.

    I can’t quote the fathers to support anything of Protestant takes on Scripture, because of my lack of familiarity with them, too!

    I do not pretend to having any facility in the Fathers.

    I simply do not give any first or second century Christian a leg up over later saints. I totally appreciate and understand your adamance & vehemence in this.

  8. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Hugh McCann,

    It might also help you to consider that in Orthodox purview, a “Father” is not such simply because he is a 1st or 2nd century Christian, or even one who was an important early Christian thinker (e.g., Tertullian and Origen are not Church “Fathers” for the Orthodox because they were never recognized as Saints). Rather, he is a Saint (not just a saint), meaning according to the first-hand experiential witness of the Church beginning with those who knew him best (his contemporary peers, spiritual children and grandchildren) he substantially realized not just in his teaching of the Scriptures, but in the totality of his Christlike life, the goal of the Christian life. This is significant in light of what qualified a man in the New Testament Church to rule or teach as a bishop, presbyter or deacon (see 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1). Not all those deemed “Fathers” in the Orthodox Church are bishops or teachers in the formal sense (although many we reference from those early centuries are), but all led extraordinarily holy lives and, as a result, when they speak of the things of God, they speak with a kind of authority that contemporary Joe Blow with his Bible under his arm doesn’t necessarily have. To me, that makes good biblical sense.

  9. Hugh McCann Avatar
    Hugh McCann

    Karen, Thank you; this is quite helpful!

  10. James Isaac Avatar
    James Isaac

    I read the following quote in a paper by the non-Orthodox (yet I think rather insightful) Derek Flood, which I find to be a beautiful summary of what the atonement is really about:

    “What we ultimately have in [St.] Athanasius is an understanding of salvation that involves a real and profound change in who we are, and one that addresses evil, suffering, and injustice on an ultimate level. It is an understanding of salvation which involves our healing by way of Christ ‘abolishing’ [sic] the very system of death through his death and resurrection. In other words, substitutionary atonement understood within the conceptual framework of what we might term restorative justice. It is restorative in the sense that salvation is focused on our healing and re-birth (restoring us), and restorative in that it seeks to overturn the system of death (restoring God’s reign). This represents a paradigm of justice not based on a punitive model, but one focused on setting us right by transforming us, and setting the world right by overthrowing ‘the law of sin and death’ (Ro 8:2). In this later sense it reflects a model of justice that is in fact the opposite of retributive justice, because it seeks ultimately to abolish retribution, not to appease it.”

  11. James Isaac Avatar
    James Isaac

    I would only rewrite the above to say that salvation IS our healing and re-birth, and that [the Pascha] has overturned the system of death. It only remains for us to enter into that glorious reality through faith.

  12. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    James Isaac,
    St. Athanasius is a fascinating read. He starts with the whole question of creation ex nihilo and uses it to make his entire point on the atonement. We fall, in that we transgress. But the fall is not into a punishment, but constitutes a loss of the grace that sustained us in our existence (since we are, in fact, created out of nothing). So, apart from God, death begins to “reign,” i.e. we begin an inexorable movement towards non-existence (though never actually reaching complete non-existence). All of the immorality of our world is simply a manifestation of that movement towards non-existence playing itself out.

    Atonement means being restored to proper communion and back to the path for which we were created, i.e. eternal being.

  13. Eric Vozzy Avatar

    Fr. Stephen,

    Thank you for continually addressing this topic. It’s extremely necessary on so many levels. Could you please briefly comment on the language used in I Corinthians 6:19-20 and 7:22-23 (“bought with a price”)? As a former Evangelical, I would’ve pointed out these verses to show some kind of payment as part of the “back-story.” Thank you!

  14. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Eric,
    It’s a good question. The problem with a “back-story” for these 2 statements (quite close together), is “To whom is something being paid?” This matter was treated in the Fathers, especially St. Gregory the Theologian, who dismissed the possibilities of either the Father being the recipient or the Devil as false (he used much stronger language). That is also to say, that, writing in the 4th century, St. Gregory clearly knows of no use of such a back-story. Instead, it seems to be an image that just stands alone. “Bought with a price,” is the equivalent of “it cost Him His life.”

    There is a use of “ransom” language, that is equally sort of “independent.” Christ is consistently described as having “ransomed us from death,” but with no story of anything being paid to death or such.

    What happens, is that the later “back-story” which is a relatively modern invention, picks up these “dangling” verses and weaves them into the story and says they prove it. But the story is actually completely absent. So, then, we have to ask what story is actually present. The best answer is that of the classic Christus Victor model. Christ descends into death and hades and binds the devil and frees us. He tramples down death by death. He leads captivity captive. Etc.

  15. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Father, do we go looking for a different “back story” because we want one that we can control or because we reject the premise of the Chistus Victor story, or some other reason?

  16. Fr. Stephen Freeman Avatar

    Michael,
    I think it’s pretty simple. If people have been nurtured on a back story, and then have someone (like me) telling them that it’s actually not true and not in the Scriptures, they are surprised, even a little dismayed. How can something believed so widely and preached so fervently by so many not actually be in the Scriptures?

    I don’t see anything deeper than that. Some will still fight tooth and nail to find it, to insist that it’s really there. There is, of course, a huge argument from silence. If this back story that supports the penal substitution theory were so true, so obvious and Scriptural, why do we not find any real mention of it until a 1000 years later?

    Why would all the ancient anaphoras (the central prayer of the liturgy) make no mention or use of that back story but use others instead?

    But again, I think its a force of habit that keeps it around. Nothing sinister.

  17. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    Ironically, I just received a copy of Christus Victor in the mail today! Old library book; I will enjoy reading it.

  18. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    It’s very difficult to let go of a back story if you have been taught that to deny it endangers your very soul and salvation! It is also difficult because it is only in clinging to this theory that many have been taught they can have any assurance of salvation. There is nothing “sinister” about all that in the sense of conspiracy or mystery, but it is, it seems to me, a bondage and a lie perpetuated by darkness, unbelief (in the true character of God revealed in Christ), and ignorance.

  19. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    The sinister part is that it is a lie propagated by the father of lies is it not?

    I can understand, Karen, the perpetuation of the lie in a sense especially when the truth is not preached where most can have access. The only reason I ever found the truth was because I went looking and Jesus had mercy on me. I looked in some pretty dark places despite the fact that PSA never made sense to me.

    I suppose I am asking: What is the quirk in us that makes us prefer darkness over light; lies over truth, death over life, non-existence over existence?

    Why do I or any of us turn our backs on Jesus Christ when He is standing right there in person saying come to me?

    As with Peter, it seems it is all too easy to get distracted by the world.

  20. Renewal Avatar
    Renewal

    Karen , that topic has been on my mind with all the thinking I’m doing. What is the basis for assurance following Christ in the Orthodox way? Can you walk with peace?

  21. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    Michael,

    I think there is a great deal of comfort in absolutes and, as Karen mentioned, the “assurance of salvation”. It is much easier to trust the absoluteness of the idea than to trust God’s love and mercy in this regard. This is especially true in light of Protestantism championing an angry, wrathful God over us. People will cling to “darkness over light” if the darkness is simple and easy to hold onto.

    Orthodoxy, in its Truth, is hard and requires a great deal (all, in fact) from us. “Jesus as a shield against a wrathful God” is easy and requires nothing from us. Just my thoughts.

  22. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Michael, it seems to me it is just sin as death at work in the world and in us that perpetuates our clinging to lies, whatever their nature. The solution is always the same as well; it is Christ and His Holy Pascha. Just as you describe in your own experience, it is seeking Christ that liberates and illumines us, and He will be faithful to complete the work He has begun in us, no matter how many dark alleys and dead ends we may traverse in our blind groping after Him. Our only task is to not give up in that seeking until we truly find that which alone can fill and satisfy our souls. And, once we have found it, we won’t need anyone to further describe the way for us, and we will always through our own experience know the way back home when we wander. “Taste and see that the Lord is good!”

  23. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Renewal, very good questions and quite to the point. Indeed, I am at peace as I have never been before. And, this is not because I have attained to some particular level in my own theosis/sanctification or to a level of completeness in my doctrinal understanding. If anything, I am more aware than ever as an Orthodox Christian of how short I fall of Christ’s glory and how little I truly know of the things and ways of God. The difference is there is a kind of steadiness and concrete reality with which the Tradition of the Orthodox Church presents the Truth of the gospel (and here I mean in her Creed, in her Liturgy and sacramental and ascetical life, and in the lives and teaching of her Saints) that keeps the true vision of Christ in focus for me. And, I have found (even before I was Orthodox) to see Him clearly is to trust Him fully. It’s as simple as that.

    I have written before in comments at this site that for all practical purposes and when the smoke of rhetoric has cleared, my Evangelical faith required me to trust my embrace of a particular doctrinal formula and theory (an abstract concept/ideology) before allowing me to claim an assurance of salvation (and then it required me to make this claim, ironically, as a test of its genuineness!). I don’t know if you can see the subtle way this threw me back on myself and my own fallible spiritual understanding and faith commitment for such “assurance.”

    My Orthodox faith, on the other hand, at every point by all its teaching and in its practices, continually forces me again and again to put the full weight of my trust solely on and in the living Person of Jesus Christ, His love, mercy and faithfulness, and His power. In Evangelicalism, once I met the criteria to claim genuine belief to its satisfaction, it required me (or at least unwittingly encouraged me) to deny the very real conviction and warnings I received from the Holy Spirit on a day to day basis about the urgency of addressing the discrepancies between my life and the requirements of the gospel commands in favor of affirming an “assurance” of salvation based on propositional theories about the meaning and implications of the Scriptures (of which there was no one set standard, but many differing variations). At the very least, this promoted a Gnostic-like disconnect between my Christian beliefs and my actual spiritual experience, which makes for a pretty confused and less than satisfying way to try in reality to connect with God and follow Christ.

  24. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Renewal, even though I struggle with my own sinfulness, I am absolutely sure that Jesus Christ is there, sealed in me at my Chrismation, “The seal of the gift of the Holy Spirit”.

    It is not some intellectual agreement, but the assurance of the everlasting presence of our Lord God and Savior, Jesus Christ in His person.

    No matter how often I stray, He is always there gentling tapping me on my shoulder or whacking me on my head to remind me to turn back. Despite being a stiff-necked contrarian, He always greets me with open arms when I do turn back.

    Of course that is one advantage of having His mother with me too.

    I, for one, make it much more difficult than it need be.

  25. Onesimus Avatar
    Onesimus

    Great thoughts Karen. I always appreciate your comments and experience.

    Renewal,

    What is the basis for assurance following Christ in the Orthodox way?

    Can you tease out what you mean by this question a little bit more deeply / clearly?

  26. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    A tangent, for which I hope all will forgive me.

    Today was a hard day. Not hard in any real sense–“first world problems”, as a friend and I called it (while laughing). But it was still a grind on my spirit throughout the day. I went to Vespers tonight and, aside from the small choir and Father Ambrose, I was the only person there. I had difficulty praying and in worship and I was very defensive in my spirit and easily distracted.

    Even in this, there were a couple of times I know God reached out to me.

    At the end of the service, I was unburdened of my day. Father surprised me by pointing out that today is my first Name Day (Saint Dionysius of Glushitsk, Vologda) in the Church! I almost laughed aloud when he pointed it out; worship always lightens my spirit, sometimes in the most surprising ways! Christ is Risen! God is good!

  27. Renewal Avatar
    Renewal

    Thanks all, I will read your answers slowly & contemplate them.

    Onesimus- what I mean as a person prone to serious anxiety (I have had a long term anxiety disorder) & currently suffering from depression – to give you my emotional context- & as one hurt by Calvinist pictures of God & an alcoholic father, I suppose I mean true confidence, that brings peace, that God himself loves me & wants me, & will give me everything needed to be saved. There’s something about the orthodox way of saying things that makes it sound like no-one’s quite sure they’ve done enough or are enough to really have confidence to say they are saved & will be with Christ if they die today.
    It may well be that this is said against a background of utter confidence in the love of God, that you are beloved children, & that he is more willing to give you what you need than you are to receive, so you walk in confidence daily that no matter how weak or sinful you may be, God wants you with him & will enable this to happen, so it’s not that you don’t believe you aren’t ‘right’ with God, you’re just not as sanctified as you wish to be.
    I suppose I’m also very aware of how weak & sinful I am, & how much everything to do with God has been such a mess, theologically, so that it’ll take a lot of time to sort things out so I feel like I can get anything right in loving him. It’ll be slow, & I suppose I want some peace in the current that slow is okay, his grace is enough for that & that he wants me to live life before him confident & peaceful in his love, not worrying I’m going to mess up & ruin my relationship with him every 5 minutes.
    I’m not sure if any of that makes sense…. is following Christ in the Orthodox way one where you feel assured of God’s love & right standing with him?

  28. Renewal Avatar
    Renewal

    Onsimus – forgive me if that was a bit rambly…my academic writing is much sharper than this. I need to move those lessons into my blog comments.

  29. Catherine Avatar
    Catherine

    Dear Renewal,

    the sweet taste of Communion, Jesus Christ Himself being present in every single Liturgy and loving me so much that He rejoices in offering Himself (!) to me personally, every time, despite all my sins and failings – nothing consoles and “assures” me of God’s Love for man as much as that “realisation” and blissful experience grows in my heart with time.

    I may be a complete mess, but we have a God that Loves us and Wants us That much!

    “It’ll be slow, & I suppose I want some peace in the current that slow is okay, his grace is enough for that & that he wants me to live life before him confident & peaceful in his love, not worrying I’m going to mess up & ruin my relationship with him every 5 minutes.”
    Yes! Forgive me for my boldness, and please ignore this comment if it is not helpfull to you right now.

  30. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Renewal, keep in mind that the Orthodox use of language is quite different than anything you have known before. There are categories of thought within the Protestant soteriology that simply do not exist in the Orthodox Church. The approach to “assurance” is one such place.

    The word “assurance” is used quite differently in Protestant soteriology than it would be in Orthodox understanding. Your intuitive understanding of the reason we use such self-accusing language is correct however.

    Salvation in the Orthodox Church is not so much an end point you achieve but the ongoing process of transformation and transfiguration. It never really ends. Both St. Paul and St. Gregory of Nyssa describe it as going from glory to glory. It is, as Father Stephen points out an ontological approach–a cleansing and transformation of our entire being (including our body).

    That can be unnerving to some. There is a cross-over point at which the lure of sin is no longer in us, but that is a place that few reach in this earthly life, certainly I have not. Still as long as we are in an earthly body, temptation is always possible. That is why the Orthodox life is often describe as a life of repentance and the self accusing language is quite common.

    Given the twisted understanding of repentance and sin that most of us suffer under, an experienced confessor is always necessary to guide one in the process. I have experienced nothing else like the Confession in the Orthodox Church. It is so unlike anything outside the Church.

    There are moments of incredible grace that reveal the disease in us in a healing way and a great burden is taken away.

    It is the constant presence of our Lord that gives me peace. At the same time, that presence also causes me to realize even more deeply how sinful I am. The greatest saints repent the most. That is the paradox that the soteriology outside the Church ignores or attempts to push under the rug so to speak. It is a massive change in approach.

    At the same time we can say confidently, I am not my sin. Despite the fact that death is in our DNA in a certain way, sin is actually foreign to us, extrinsic to our nature.

    Our specific sins took time to be embraced and it takes time to recognize them, take them off and be cleansed.

    “Be of good cheer, I have overcome the world”

    Christ is Risen, trampling down death by death!

  31. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Renewal,

    As a fellow-sufferer from anxiety and depression (I have ADHD), my heart goes out to you! The peace I have within Orthodoxy does indeed come its support and bolstering of my awareness of the love of God in Christ. It breaks my heart to see how those raised in legalistic interpretations of Christian life and faith (and this can and does include many Orthodox) struggle to trust in the unadulterated goodness and unconditional love and acceptance of God for all humankind demonstrated through the Incarnation. This steadfast love and good will toward men–even sinners–is not altered one iota by our many betrayals, sins and failings. If anything this provokes God to even greater outpouring of compassion and longs uttering patience, recognizing our helplessness but for His intervention! It is the enemy who whispers lies in our ears and minds trying to get us to abandon hope in God’s love, because he knows it is only through his falsehoods he can keep us in bondage. An accurate perception of Reality would immediately set us free from his clutches. I suggest that Reality is most fully disclosed in the moment on the Cross where Jesus prays for His most stiff- necked, murderous and willful betrayers, “Father, forgive them. They don’t know what they are doing.” Now, consider that prayer in its context in light of Jesus’ teaching that He only ever speaks in our hearing what the Father gives Him to say and that he who has seen Him has seen the Father, as well as in light of the declaration in the first chapter of John’s gospel that the Incarnate Son is the “exegesis”–the full revelation–of the unseen Father (John 1:19?).

    Fr. Stephen once wrote to an anxious inquirer in comments on his blog that “God is not in a hurry, and we don’t need to be either.” He will be faithful to lead us all the way home even if in our blindness we blunder a million times off the Path. He is the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep and who leaves the 99 who are safe in the fold to seek the lost and terrified lamb who has strayed into dangerous enemy territory. Meditate if you will on Jesus’ parable of the prodigal son and consider what this reveals about the heart of our Heavenly Father. May God grant you His abundant grace and peace.

  32. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    “long-suffering patience”. I hate auto-correct!

  33. Fotina Avatar
    Fotina

    Renewal,

    Christ is our Assurance, Life, Salvation…All!!!

    Just learned this from story at link:

    “We celebrate the slaying of death, the destroying of hell, the beginning of another way of life that is eternal. And leaping for joy, we sing a hymn to the Cause, the only blessed and most glorious God of our fathers.”

    http://ancientchristianwisdom.com/2013/05/07/the-elder-porphyrios-on-paschal-hymns-and-victory-over-sorrows-and-setbacks/:

  34. Dee of St Herman's Avatar
    Dee of St Herman’s

    Renewal,

    I’m not as learned as others who write here, but in attending to what the saints and to those who have long life experience with God, the answer is yes in Orthodoxy you can be assured of God’s love. “Right-standing” is a process of our life. Just like your cells in your body need to be renewed and supported with metabolic process, so your life with God involves a process of ‘turning toward’ and repentance. Not because you have angered God, but because we live in the world and there are processes at work that distract us from our unity to God through Christ.

    I was baptized into the Orthodox faith only about a month ago and was a catechumen for about 15 months and inquirer about 3 months before that. Then before that I did a lot of reading in Orthodox theology. Before my baptism there was uncertainty in me, partly arising from the pressures from my family to stop what I was doing in my ‘approach to the cross’ as my spiritual father called my path into Christianity. Having a spiritual father has really helped me. Having a parish family feeds my soul. But the baptism itself was far beyond that of a ‘ritual’. I sincerely believe it was and continues to be the initiation of having the Holy Spirit live in my soul. Something changed in me. I believe I too have more peace thanks to God’s Grace.

    In my life before Christianity, I saw all Protestants as self-righteous bigots. Now I confess my own bigotry and discover that the majority of my loving parish family are former Protestants. But there is a kind of ‘tone’ in the behavior and theology of the Protestant faith that encourages a kind of self deception or self-confidence in their relationship to God as apposed to a focus on our lives as a process of becoming united with God and having confidence in God’s love in that process. Sometimes the distinction is not so obvious because of the ubiquity of the culture that awards self confidence.

    My apologies for my interjection. I’m a recent convert and thought that perhaps my perspective from my infancy in the faith might help.

  35. James Isaac Avatar
    James Isaac

    Dear Renewal,

    As someone likewise steeped in the classical Reformation tradition (Lutheran in my case), I find it interesting that you and I apparently share the same anxious-depressive disorder and attribute it largely to this spectre of an angry God. It’s paradoxical in a way that the Orthodox faith doesn’t preach the absolute assurance of ultimate salvation, and yet I feel more hopeful and at peace, less OCD-anxious, and overall at home in the Church.

    I believe – and as I am often at pains to emphasize, I know very little and understand even less – that our assurance is indeed that God has, can, and is willing to do everything needful for our salvation. The ‘uncertainty’ is more to do with our willingness to receive Him, let go of the world and its passions, “bear a little shame” as we hear so often on this blog, and embrace fully the Kingdom which now is and is to come.

    This is why I find great peace in praying, “Lord, save me whether I want it or not…” And pray to stop my constant obsessing over my [lack of] moral progress and the amount of fruit I feel I ought to be bearing.

    Hope that helps, and God richly bless your journey of healing and restoration.

  36. Renewal Avatar
    Renewal

    Wow, I am really staggered by the kindness of all your replies to me. I appreciate it so much & will slowly read & think on them all. I decided to just be honest about where I was at as I read back through some of the archives & saw others who come from protestant backgrounds given so much help with their agonised questions.

    It’s all so new to me that the ‘oldest’ pictures of God are so much kinder than the newer ones, & because I’m currently struggling I think my brain is vomiting up a load of old fears that I’m going to start trusting again, & then find some dark undercurrent I’d missed. The Calvinist God really broke my heart in that way. So being able to ask these kinds of questions that are all left over from things I’ve been worried about through the years is very cathartic for me. I’m still scared to hope for the best though… what I really want is a calm & happy trust in God, & to live a life of love, particularly in my field of work (I work with vulnerable teenagers, who I love dearly).

    I’m going to try to visit an Orthodox church as soon as I feel fit (anxiety affects my ability to travel) to see what all this looks like fleshed out, there aren’t so many around here in Southern England that meet more than a couple of times a month.

    You have all really lifted my heart.

  37. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Renewal, as the mother of two wonderful teenagers, one of whom has special needs, my heart is warmed by your last comment. Those teens are very blessed to have you! Love is slways the right response.

  38. Onesimus Avatar

    Renewal,

    So much has been has been written above is so full of goodness. What little I have to say can hardly add to it. I share much with you in terms of our past… I.e. Calvinism, alcoholic father, anxiety & depression (PTSD) etc. I feel your pain and disappointment…I understand some of it.

    As I think about this….Mental Assurance of salvation is something that (as a mental concept) falls away after a time being Orthodox (at least for me) in that the Spirit testifies to our Spirit (Romans 8:15-16) that we are children of God. That was never a reality for me before Orthodoxy…it was more of an idea….a verbal platitude. I did not know the Holy Spirit (though I am sure that others have as non-Orthodox…I speak only for myself).

    Now…however… the reality of the Spirit IS working in me…He is my assurance….a consistent guide drawing my heart towards Christ and His Body. I don’t doubt it because it is undeniable. I can’t explain the difference adequately, .but it is something like the difference between reading the musical notes of a great symphony on a page (having never heard it) versus being immersed in an Orchestra playing it. Really, try this…go HERE and read every note of mozart’s no. 21 concerto. Then…go to YouTube and listen to the concerto. The difference is like this…but so much more. There are ups and downs to be sure…but in the Church we have the place and the methods to sacramentally be purified before God and before one another. it is a powerful thing to go to confession…and as someone who once rejected my own misnomers about confession…I can’t tell you how healing it is. Grace is tangible. And to partake of Christ’s body and blood and to be assured through a sacramental life in the Spirit…this is beyond explanation. In all cases, we are assured by our walking the cruciform path He has given to each of us.

    For Orthodox, we acknowledge the completeness of Christ’s work in uniting humanity to divinity and saving ALL humanity from sin and death. There is assurance of resurrection…but this is only half the story. The other half of the story is allowing the Spirit to lead us to sanctification & theosis….which means ultimately…allowing Him to make us Christ-like. The real difficulty here is actually surrendering to the Spirit of God unto sanctification…which means dying to ourselves. This is hard…because it is constant. But as Fr. Freeman often says, “that which has not died cannot be resurrected.” The Orthodox life is the life of daily bearing our cross, dying to ourselves and being resurrected. This is our assurance….that if we suffer with Him, we shall reign with Him.

    For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.…

    And this word is trustworthy, for if we have died with him*, we shall also live with him,
    And if we suffer, we shall also reign with him,* but if we renounce him, he will also renounce us. And if we shall not have believed in him, he continues in his faithfulness, for he cannot renounce himself.
    . 2 Tim 2 :11-13

  39. Renewal Avatar
    Renewal

    Thank you Onesimus. It is so helpful to read of the experiences of others who have been like me. All, of it helps in what are currently dark days for me – have started meds so that may be why I feel so wiped out right now- just that encouragement that walking with Christ is possible & confidence in him is the key. I just get scared that in the end my love for him will fail somehow, but I need to ask & trust for this too. Thank you so much for taking time to reply.

    Karen – some of my young people have special needs, many are just struggling with anger, anxiety, broken families, drugs etc. I also manage an LGBTQ project with many sensitive & very psychiatrically vulnerable youngsters aged 11-16. In some ways they are closest to my heart, if there are gradients, as they are so troubled & so unsure of their being worthy of love. It’s a long hard road for any young person on those paths. It’s partly working too hard on these projects that has me off for a while now. I wish your children all good things.

  40. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    Renewal, my daughter is on the autism spectrum with mild learning disabilities. She’s high functioning and extremely social, which is a blessing that also comes with its own challenges, but mostly very much a blessing! I did my college psychology internship with a large social services agency in my home town (in about 1981). One of the case social workers who oversaw my week in his department, was described to me by one of the others as being in “stage 9 of 10 stages of burnout.” It sounds like you may have reached stage 10! I’m sure your work must be very heart-breaking and draining at times even as it must also be rewarding. May God grant you and all you serve abundant grace, healing and restoration!

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